Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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retrofuturist
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Annabel,
Annabel wrote:Um, what is the Theravadin conclusion exactly now?
Can we sum it up?
I think a fair conclusion from what I've read thus far would be that a 'bounty-hunter' isn't specified as wrong livelihood in and of itself. There may be aspects of the role that may become wrong livelihood under certain circumstances. It doesn't appear to be a good profession for a Buddhist because it doesn't seem particularly compatible with the Five Precepts or the Noble Eightfold Path.

I'll move this thread to the Lounge, but people are of course still welcome to comment from a Theravadin perspective after the move.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

stuka wrote:All of the silly monkey-chatter aside, let's take a look at just who and what this "Dog" fellow is:

Duane Chapman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman
Born February 2, 1953 (1953-02-02) (age 55)
Denver, Colorado
Occupation Bounty hunter, television personality
Spouse(s) La Fonda Sue Honeycutt (1972-1977)
Anne M. Tegnell (1979-?)
Lyssa Rae Brittian (1982-1991)
Tawny Marie ?-1994
Beth Smith 2006-present
Children 11, including Duane Lee Chapman, II and Leland Chapman
Website
Official Website

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman (born February 2, 1953 in Denver, Colorado [1]) is an American bounty hunter and bail bondsman who lives in Honolulu, Hawaii. He stars in Dog the Bounty Hunter, a weekly reality television program which is broadcast on the A&E Network (USA), Virgin 1 (both UK), Bravo, and FOX8/Nine Network (Australia) .

Chapman, a former gang member with 18 prior convictions for armed robbery,[2] was sentenced in Pampa, Texas to a five year prison term in 1977 after being convicted of the first degree murder of Jerry Oliver. Chapman maintains his innocence of murder but suggests he was a legal accessory for not reporting the shooting to the police. He was released on probation after 1 and a half years.[3]

Dog's career in bounty hunting began when he was in court disputing child support. When he told the judge he did not have the money to pay, the judge offered him a deal to bring in a fugitive in exchange for the judge to pay part of Chapman's child support [4] for Duane Lee and Leland Chapman.
:roll:
Dear Stuka,

if I would play chess, I would say the judge made an excellent move.

He helped to reintegrate Dog Chapman into society, and instead of repeating criminal offences to secure his livelihood, he now has a legal activity, which was recently rewarded.

If that isn't rehabilitation as suggested by Dhammakid, I don't know what is.

Instead of breaking the laws as before, he now reinforces them.

This is positive, isn't it? (Unless you want to argue that our laws are crap....)

What strikes me from the Buddhist and Theravada perspective is, that somebody (was) stopped (on) the downward course, as described it the Dhammapada.

When you now argue that he was convicted of murder, the case was apparently so weak they released him after 18 months on probation, so why is that, in the harsh US system?

Then you could also think of also think of Angulimala, who murdered 999, and then became a monk, and an Arahant.

Here is what happened after the racial slur he was accused of:
On December 21, 2007, Roy Innis, the chairman of the Congress of Racial Equality, one of the first to call the A&E network to have the show taken off the air, met with Alecia Colon of The New York Sun and Chapman. Innis stated for the daily newspaper, "After meeting with him and his wife, Beth, and hearing his side of the story, we realized that the controversy had unjustly spiraled out of control without context." [33]

He went on to say, "Duane has taken ownership of the damage of his words and has taken on the responsibility of being a racial healer for our country… I have been with this man several times and had extensive dialogues with him. (Innis' son) and I consider him and his wife good friends. Duane is a changed man and has a higher purpose. Popular television is a wasteland of meaningless titillation and degradation. The Dog's potential to take his celebrity and turn it into something redeeming for our culture and society is immense. It is for these reasons that we want his television show back on the air."
Namaste,

Annabel.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

stuka wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings stuka,

Well, for Dog it looks as if being a bounty hunter is "Improved" livelihood, whether or not it's classified as "Right" or "Wrong".

Metta,
Retro. :)

:lol:

It would seem so. That fact does not seem to induce any sort of "nice cozy-warm feeling", however....
Which nobody did or support with quote.

Thanks! :P

Annabel.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

stuka wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Papanca?

Metta,
Retro. :)
In this case, the papanca of Schadenfreude over the public exploitation of the misfortunes and suffering that others incur, whether they ultimately deserve it, or not.

It wouldn't have occured to me to connect Schadenfreude with the series.

For me, I am happy that Chapman has an improved livelihood now and I like to learn more about the details of his unusual job.

I think it has to do with what we concentrate upon, who we look at, how we perceive others, positive or negative, and as such the thread also becomes a mirror in which we can investigate our own mind's workings..
Last edited by Annapurna on Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

stuka wrote:
Annabel wrote:
But that is not what is being done when I ask and we simply discuss what type of livelihood it constitutes.

Namaste!

Annabel
The problem lies in the indiscriminate nature of the beast.
Could you explain to me what you mean with that? Sorry, if it's obvious to others., but I don't get it right now. :oops:

Thanks!

Annabel
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Annabel,
Annabel wrote:Um, what is the Theravadin conclusion exactly now?
Can we sum it up?
I think a fair conclusion from what I've read thus far would be that a 'bounty-hunter' isn't specified as wrong livelihood in and of itself. There may be aspects of the role that may become wrong livelihood under certain circumstances. It doesn't appear to be a good profession for a Buddhist because it doesn't seem particularly compatible with the Five Precepts or the Noble Eightfold Path.

I'll move this thread to the Lounge, but people are of course still welcome to comment from a Theravadin perspective after the move.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Hi, Retro.
I think a fair conclusion from what I've read thus far would be that a 'bounty-hunter' isn't specified as wrong livelihood in and of itself.
ok.
There may be aspects of the role that may become wrong livelihood under certain circumstances.
Agreed.
It doesn't appear to be a good profession for a Buddhist because it doesn't seem particularly compatible with the Five Precepts or the Noble Eightfold Path.
I can understand that.

However....

76-77

Regard him as one who
points out
treasure,
the wise one who
seeing your faults
rebukes you.
Stay with this sort of sage.
For the one who stays
with a sage of this sort,
things get better,
not worse.

Let him admonish, instruct,
deflect you
away from poor manners.
To the good, he's endearing;
to the bad, he's not.


Dog often admonishes people he arrested to stop the wrong path and encourages them to do this or that instead. ...
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by christopher::: »

Hi Anna & friends,

Some actions and activities in life may not fit neatly into a right or wrong category. Aspects of this man's work seem very positive, other aspects might create negative karma or problems for him in the future. Hard to say for sure, imo. People hold different views. I think especially with a situation like this that should be expected.

What's most important of course is that we make these kinds of distinctions as best we can for our own lives and behavior.

Just my own two cents on the matter.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

And as so often, you hit the nail on the head!

I wish Dog and his family enterprise lucky stars, and for myself and you all too.

Let's hope we always find the best solutions to the challenges and choices we may encounter.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

I think my question is answered.

I want to thank all for participating and especially for the Dhamma quotes.

Thank you.

Annabel
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by stuka »

Annabel wrote:
stuka wrote:All of the silly monkey-chatter aside, let's take a look at just who and what this "Dog" fellow is:

Duane Chapman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman
Born February 2, 1953 (1953-02-02) (age 55)
Denver, Colorado
Occupation Bounty hunter, television personality
Spouse(s) La Fonda Sue Honeycutt (1972-1977)
Anne M. Tegnell (1979-?)
Lyssa Rae Brittian (1982-1991)
Tawny Marie ?-1994
Beth Smith 2006-present
Children 11, including Duane Lee Chapman, II and Leland Chapman
Website
Official Website

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman (born February 2, 1953 in Denver, Colorado [1]) is an American bounty hunter and bail bondsman who lives in Honolulu, Hawaii. He stars in Dog the Bounty Hunter, a weekly reality television program which is broadcast on the A&E Network (USA), Virgin 1 (both UK), Bravo, and FOX8/Nine Network (Australia) .

Chapman, a former gang member with 18 prior convictions for armed robbery,[2] was sentenced in Pampa, Texas to a five year prison term in 1977 after being convicted of the first degree murder of Jerry Oliver. Chapman maintains his innocence of murder but suggests he was a legal accessory for not reporting the shooting to the police. He was released on probation after 1 and a half years.[3]

Dog's career in bounty hunting began when he was in court disputing child support. When he told the judge he did not have the money to pay, the judge offered him a deal to bring in a fugitive in exchange for the judge to pay part of Chapman's child support [4] for Duane Lee and Leland Chapman.
:roll:
Dear Stuka,

if I would play chess, I would say the judge made an excellent move.

He helped to reintegrate Dog Chapman into society, and instead of repeating criminal offences to secure his livelihood, he now has a legal activity, which was recently rewarded.

If that isn't rehabilitation as suggested by Dhammakid, I don't know what is.

Instead of breaking the laws as before, he now reinforces them.

This is positive, isn't it? (Unless you want to argue that our laws are crap....)

What strikes me from the Buddhist and Theravada perspective is, that somebody (was) stopped (on) the downward course, as described it the Dhammapada.

When you now argue that he was convicted of murder, the case was apparently so weak they released him after 18 months on probation, so why is that, in the harsh US system?

Then you could also think of also think of Angulimala, who murdered 999, and then became a monk, and an Arahant.

Here is what happened after the racial slur he was accused of:
On December 21, 2007, Roy Innis, the chairman of the Congress of Racial Equality, one of the first to call the A&E network to have the show taken off the air, met with Alecia Colon of The New York Sun and Chapman. Innis stated for the daily newspaper, "After meeting with him and his wife, Beth, and hearing his side of the story, we realized that the controversy had unjustly spiraled out of control without context." [33]

He went on to say, "Duane has taken ownership of the damage of his words and has taken on the responsibility of being a racial healer for our country… I have been with this man several times and had extensive dialogues with him. (Innis' son) and I consider him and his wife good friends. Duane is a changed man and has a higher purpose. Popular television is a wasteland of meaningless titillation and degradation. The Dog's potential to take his celebrity and turn it into something redeeming for our culture and society is immense. It is for these reasons that we want his television show back on the air."
Namaste,

Annabel.
You are way more fascinated with this man and his livelihood than I am. You might consider the difference between a pirate and a privateer. Not much, really.

Forgive my not addressing the points you raise. It simply does not hold my interest at all. It's like trying to stay awake while listening to someone drone on for seven pages about Britney Spearzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

Dear Stuka, please feel no obligation to participate in any threads if they bore you, why do you? Image

But thank you for your interesting contributions!
You are way more fascinated with this man and his livelihood than I am.
Just with livelihood...
Forgive my not addressing the points you raise.
You are forgiven. ;)

Best wishes,

Annabel
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by jcsuperstar »

i've watched the show because it was on at a house i was at and i had no control over the TV

he uses lies and deception to catch these people that would go against right speech and the 5 precepts... but he's not a buddhist, so i guess it doesnt matter.

the show however is dreadful....
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna »

I haven't seen him using lies, and he is a practising Christian.

You should not lie is a commandment.

Also, the Dalai Lama said that a white lie is allowed, if greater harm is being prevented this way-

Makes sense to me.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by kc2dpt »

Annabel wrote:he is a practising Christian.

You should not lie is a commandment.
No it isn't.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by appicchato »

Peter wrote:
Annabel wrote: You should not lie is a commandment.
No it isn't.
Wouldn't 'Thou shall not bear false witness...' qualify?... :shrug:
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