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Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering? - Page 15 - Dhamma Wheel

Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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retrofuturist
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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:53 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:56 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:05 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:22 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby Sylvester » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:36 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:52 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:58 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:00 am

Play nice, gentlmen, please.

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby piotr » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:04 am

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:10 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby piotr » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:16 am

Hi Retrofuturist,

The sutta says that in-and-outbreathing ceases in 4th jhāna. You've said that this saṅkhāra ceases for arahant. Are you saying that arahants abide in 4th jhāna all the time?
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:23 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby piotr » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:26 am

Hi retrofuturist

That's why I've mentioned your creativty. I find it useless in light of Rahogata-sutta.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:27 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:30 am

Last edited by Nyana on Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:41 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:02 am


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Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:52 am

Greetings Tilt,

Your post reflects why we cannot reach consensus - different definitions and understanding of key terms, specifically 'sankata' and what constitutes a formed dhamma/experience... I'm comfortable not to come to consensus on this issue, and i shan't attempt measurement of arahant by conditioned measures.

Once again, what do the cessation of the pre-tanha nidanas mean to you. The suttas claim cessation of those things for the arahant yet you seem to take offense at this notion and decline to explain what their cessation means to you. Perhaps there is no pre-death explanation that meets with your comfort?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Last edited by retrofuturist on Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed formatting (it was originally typed from my phone)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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