Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

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Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby octobersun79 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:40 am

Hi All

I'm fortunate enough to be travelling to Thailand at the end of April and hope to visit http://www.watmarpjan.org/en/en-index.html near Rayong.

I'd like to know if anyone has travelled to this part of Thailand and can recommend any other places to meditate or visit - historical or otherwise.

Thank you.

Caroline :-)
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby gavesako » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:39 am

Not far from there, in Chonburi, is Wat Boonyawad with some Western monks as well:
http://www.watboonyawad.com/
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby octobersun79 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:46 pm

Looks lovely, but the websites all in Thai?
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby gavesako » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:15 pm

Look for English descriptions here: http://www.retreat-infos.de

And also http://watboonyawad.blogspot.com/
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby octobersun79 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:14 pm

Thank you
:namaste:
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby starter » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:10 am

A friend of mine told me that Wat Boonyawad is busy with constructing and might not be a superb place to practice at this moment. Is it so? I also plan to visit Wat Boonyawad but not sure if it's really too noisy or not. Hope to hear from some friend(s) about it ...

Hope Ajahn Dtun (the abbot of Wat Boonyawad) is recovering from the cancer ... I pray for him. Can the visitors still get interviews with him considering his health?

Metta to all!
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby Kori » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:28 am

Wat Marp Jan and Wat Boonyawad look incredibly beautiful. I'm envious that you get to go! :tongue: Maybe one day I'll get to visit as well. :tantrum:

Mettā pāramī,
- Leah
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him."

Dhammapada, Ch. 1, Verse 2.
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby gavesako » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:53 am

Yes, there is building work going on at Wat Boonyawad, but it should still be okay for meditation practice. They are also building this huge stupa:
http://www.outokumpu.com/Industry-offer ... -Thailand/
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
Dhammatube - Videos on Buddhist practice
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby nyanasuci » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:02 am

I found a PDF with some Dhamma of Ajahn Dtun. :reading:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WW3A4YLM
(wait few second before you download it!)
Bhikkhu Hiriko - Ñāṇasuci

The experts do not say that one is a sage in this world because of view, or learning, or knowledge, Nanda.
I call them sages who wander without association, without affliction, without desire.

The Buddha, Sn.V.8.2 (1078)


http://pathpress.org | http://nanavira.org | http://ajahnchah.org
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby starter » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:31 pm

Hello Bhante nyanasuci and Bhante gavesako,

My heartfelt thanks for your kind help. I read the inspiring dhamma talk of Ajahn Dtun "This is the path the way", and have been quite impressed by his approach of both body and feeling contemplations to uproot delusion, greed and aversion. I'm just a bit confused about the definition of sottapana. I thought a sottapana should not only remove the identity view of body (rupa) as "self", but also should remove the identity view of the four mental aggregates (nama) as "self", according to the Buddha's teachings. However, not only the Thai ajahns but also Sayadaw Sunlun defined sottapana as those who abandoned the view of body/form as "self". I suppose it's probably not a big deal since all "attainments" are empty anyway.

Metta to all,

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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby nyanasuci » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Hello Starter,

Good question (however I hope that is not off topic). That is indeed a question which often appears in my mind. My background is in Thai Theravada Tradition, it is also in Suttas, and – moreover – in Ven. Nanavira Thera. And even that teaching sometimes seems to be different I do not have a problem with any of the aspects. I hope my following explanation will not misinterpret anything.

According to my observation 5 khandhas in Suttas are not completely the same as it is in Thai teachings. I think that also Thai language plays its part, for example, saññā is Thai would be memory, and sankhārā would be thinking (Ajahn Gavesako would know better since he knows Thai). But according to the Suttas, saññā would be perception and sankhārā would be determination. To interpret perception just as a memory certainly overshot the real meaning of the word and there are some limitations too. Memory is experienced as anything else with other 5 senses: so, when there is experience of something there are all 5 khandhas, when there is experience of memory there are all 5 khandhas too. So, perception must mean something more precise than just memory. The same would be with sankharas... But I will not go here too much into detail here.

In Thai tradition quite often rūpa is interpreted as this physical body, and in that way it equalize rūpa khandhā (form aggregate) with kāya (body). Again, according to Suttas rūpa is something much more subtle than just this body. According to Thai way, when we become detached with body we actually experience cessation of 5 khandhas (according to Suttas) as whole; we have full understanding of the nature of any experience of identification. Imagine: you do not identify this body as your self any more, your feeling towards it is ceased too, also your perception and determination (intention) are ceased too, and consciousness which used to be directed towards 'permanent, pleasurable' body is ceased too.

So, identification with such gross physical appearance (kāya) is ceased (sa-kāya-diṭṭhi), but conceivings of rūpa (and of other 4 khandhas) does not cease yet. And when Thai teaching say that sotapanna does not experience the cessation of mental part, I understand that as that sotapanna didn't abandon of more subtle aspect such as conceiving, greed, aversion, delusion, etc.

That this make any sense to you? The matter is much more complex, and I offered here only a brief summary.

With best wishes,
Bhikkhu Hiriko - Ñāṇasuci

The experts do not say that one is a sage in this world because of view, or learning, or knowledge, Nanda.
I call them sages who wander without association, without affliction, without desire.

The Buddha, Sn.V.8.2 (1078)


http://pathpress.org | http://nanavira.org | http://ajahnchah.org
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby starter » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:54 pm

Hello Bhante,

Your kind help has been most appreciated.

"According to Thai way, when we become detached with body we actually experience cessation of 5 khandhas (according to Suttas) as whole; we have full understanding of the nature of any experience of identification. Imagine: you do not identify this body as your self any more, your feeling towards it is ceased too, also your perception and determination (intention) [towards the body] are ceased too, and consciousness which used to be directed towards 'permanent, pleasurable' body is ceased too."

-- How about the identification towards the mind (nama)? One might cease identifying with the body, but might still identify with the mind, or more precisely, the activities of the mind (feelings, perceptions, vollitions and consciousness) toward mind objects.

Thanks and metta,

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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby nyanasuci » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:44 pm

starter wrote:-- How about the identification towards the mind (nama)? One might cease identifying with the body, but might still identify with the mind, or more precisely, the activities of the mind (feelings, perceptions, vollitions and consciousness) toward mind objects.


To avoid too detailed reply, I will give you some points to direct your further contemplation.
According to my understanding of the Suttas see http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=73
And according to Thai tradition: I would be very careful how one divide body and mind. The matter is not so simple as it appears at the first glance. Practice with it (like stay with unpleasant physical feeling without acting against or towards it) and you will see the truth for yourself.
If you have any further question please do ask, but perhaps on another thread. (Send PM is you want to involve me in the discussion).

Metta,
Bhikkhu Hiriko - Ñāṇasuci

The experts do not say that one is a sage in this world because of view, or learning, or knowledge, Nanda.
I call them sages who wander without association, without affliction, without desire.

The Buddha, Sn.V.8.2 (1078)


http://pathpress.org | http://nanavira.org | http://ajahnchah.org
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Re: Wat Marp Jan, Rayong, Thailand

Postby octobersun79 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:38 pm

nyanasuci wrote:I found a PDF with some Dhamma of Ajahn Dtun. :reading:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WW3A4YLM
(wait few second before you download it!)


Thank you, I was looking for some in flight reading so this will be perfect.

Caroline :)
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