Hi,
I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.
thank you kindly.
Boredom
Re: Boredom
robert
is this definitely so categorized in abhidhamma or is this your interpretation?
I am asking because I guess it can be dosa with reference to not liking the state experienced but I think it is not necessarily dosa ... with reference to objects it may also be sort of "neutral", "inattentive", "not interested in" but I don't know the abhidhamma term that may be applicable for that kind
Kind regards
is this definitely so categorized in abhidhamma or is this your interpretation?
I am asking because I guess it can be dosa with reference to not liking the state experienced but I think it is not necessarily dosa ... with reference to objects it may also be sort of "neutral", "inattentive", "not interested in" but I don't know the abhidhamma term that may be applicable for that kind
Kind regards
Re: Boredom
I do read it somewhere but I forgotten. Boredom is like a feeling. If you says that feels good is happy, feels bad is sad. If you feel good or bad, not good nor bad, that would be boredom.
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Re: Boredom
I think that would be "neutral." Boredom is not really a neutral state. It's like a craving... you're bored because you wish for something that is more entertaining. It's one kind of aversion to what's happening right now.unspoken wrote:I do read it somewhere but I forgotten. Boredom is like a feeling. If you says that feels good is happy, feels bad is sad. If you feel good or bad, not good nor bad, that would be boredom.
Re: Boredom
my2c:I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.
Boredom is characterized by the absence of determination, energy, sympathetic joy, zeal, wisdom.
Proximate cause is unwise attention.
Effect is dosa.
Re: Boredom
Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).Akuma wrote:my2c:I would like to understand "boredom" from the abhidhamma perspective.
eg... which cetasikas does it associate with (if it can be thought about in this way at all).
or anything else that is relevant to help me better clarify it's very nature.
Boredom is characterized by the absence of determination, energy, sympathetic joy, zeal, wisdom.
Proximate cause is unwise attention.
Effect is dosa.
Dosa is not always strong dislike or hatred. It is defined by any level or degree of aversion. Being "bored" means being dissatisfied, and having aversion. So dosa arises very frequently. At other moments, there may be attachment, or kusala cittas.
Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.
Kevin
Re: Boredom
Just a friendly reminder that this is the Abhidhamma section, and discussion should focus on what the Abhidhamma says about boredom and it's causes and conditions...
Abhidhamma Forum Guidelines http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in part, read:
Mike
Abhidhamma Forum Guidelines http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in part, read:
Posts that contain personal opinions and conjecture, points of view arrived at from meditative experiences, conversations with devas, blind faith in the supreme veracity of one's own teacher's point of view etc. are all regarded as off-topic, and as such, will be subject to moderator review and/or removal.
Mike
Re: Boredom
Van Gorkoms equation of the two is completely eluding me since its nonsensical; no healthy human being feels bored every single time there is aversion which would be the logical outcome of this equation. The same goes for sloth-torpor btw which I've read more often. For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.Virgo wrote: Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).
Yep good .Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.
Kevin
Re: Boredom
I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.Akuma wrote:Van Gorkoms equation of the two is completely eluding me since its nonsensical; no healthy human being feels bored every single time there is aversion which would be the logical outcome of this equation. The same goes for sloth-torpor btw which I've read more often. For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.Virgo wrote: Viriya and chanda can both arise with dosa cetasika (boredom).
Yep good .Uddhacca, restleness, may also be associated with a feeling of boredom, I guess. It arises with all unwholesome cetasikas. Therefore, when there is dosa, there will also be restlessness.
Kevin
When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.
Re: Boredom
That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.Akuma wrote: For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
Mike
Re: Boredom
You misunderstand me I think. I didnt mean to say "there is no dosa in boredom" but merely "boredom is not dosa". Aversion arises after one concentrates on the concept "I dont have anything to do". So boredom couldnt manifest if f.e. there was panna and kusala manasikara and so on.Virgo wrote: I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.
When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.
Ah in that case I didnt say anything.Mike wrote: That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.
Re: Boredom
That's right. Conceptual thinking is object-predominance condition for dosa-mula-cittas, and so forth, which creates unpleasant feeling and dissatisfaction. "Boredom" is a concept, not a reality, so it is impossible define it is a single cetasika. While one is bored there may also be sloth and torpor for example, or attachment. The point is, the most obvious cetasika that will be involved in a process where "boredom" is experienced is dosa. That is because the characteristic of dosa is aversion, and aversion, though usually subtle and not very strong, is characteristic of "boredom".Akuma wrote:You misunderstand me I think. I didnt mean to say "there is no dosa in boredom" but merely "boredom is not dosa". Aversion arises after one concentrates on the concept "I dont have anything to do". So boredom couldnt manifest if f.e. there was panna and kusala manasikara and so on.Virgo wrote: I don't think you understand the characteristic of dosa, friend. Dosa is aversion. It can be a very subtle, very slight, uneasiness or dislike, or it can be as strong as hatred. Simply, my friend, it is aversion of any level.
When one feels 'bored' there is aversion, though it is not a strong aversion. 'Boredom' is definitely a process of many cittas and cetasikas because "boredom" is only a concept. What are real are the realities such as dosa, and restlessness.
Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Sat May 28, 2011 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Boredom
Hi Mike,mikenz66 wrote:That sounds important. Re-reading part of the thread, I think when Robert originally mentioned dosa he probably meant that boredom involves dosa, not that all dosa = boredom.Akuma wrote: For me - offtopic or not - boredom is not a dharma but a sequence.
Mike
That's how I read it too.
Kevin
Re: Boredom
Thanks for the clarificationThat's right. Conceptual thinking is object-predominance condition for dosa-mula-cittas, and so forth, which creates unpleasant feeling and dissatisfaction. "Boredom" is a concept, not a reality, so it is impossible define it is a single cetasika. While one is bored there may also be sloth and torpor for example, or attachment. The point is, the most obvious cetasika that will be involved in a process where "boredom" is experienced is dosa. That is because the characteristic of dosa is aversion, and aversion, though usually subtle and not very strong, is characteristic of "boredom".