Dhammapada Resources

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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cooran
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Dhammapada Resources

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Translations of the Dhammapada:

In keeping with Ajahn's comments elsewhere, I have left off the translations of:
Dhammapada translations to be avoided:

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.
* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.
* Translations by Indians who have a Vedantist axe to grind. E.g., Radhakrishnan.
* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom


http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... t&p=451082" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Dhammapada The Buddha's Path of Wisdom Translated from the Pali by Acharya Buddharakkhita
Introduction by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Treasury of Truth - illustrated Dhammapada ~ Ven. W. Sarada Maha Thero
http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1986 THE DHAMMAPADA VERSES & STORIES
Translated by Daw Mya Tin, M.A., 1986
THE DHAMMAPADA COMMENTARY
Translated by the Department of Pali University of Rangoon, Burma 1966

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dhmapada.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Dhammapada - translator F. Max Muller
http://ebooks.ebookmall.com/title/dhamm ... ebooks.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
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mikenz66
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the list.

I believe Ven Dhammanando also approved of:
THE DHAMMAPADA
PALI TEXT AND TRANSLATION WITH STORIES IN BRIEFAND NOTES
BY NARADA THERA
http://metta.lk/english/Narada/index.htm

Metta
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zavk
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by zavk »

Hey thanks for this Chris.

I was contemplating getting Muller's translation for my iPhone. I will get it now.

Metta,
zavk
With metta,
zavk
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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Cittasanto »

hi Chris

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.

how do you know they don't know a word of Pali, and not just using a method which they are use too?

* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.

how do you know they are imagining themselves to be poets? and not just put their knowledge and understanding of the phrases accross

* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom[/color][/b]

whats wrong with the name Thomas? what if a thomas translated it better than has been done before, should it be discarded?

I'll stick to reading what is available and only discard things which I find not to be useful, instead of reading what others think is useful.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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cooran
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by cooran »

Hello Manapa,

I totally trust Dhammanando Bhikkhu as a Pali and Buddhist Scriptural scholar. I included the link to the thread where he stated the following at E-S:

In keeping with Ajahn's comments elsewhere, I have left off the translations of:

Dhammanando Bhikkhu said:
Dhammapada translations to be avoided:

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.
* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.
* Translations by Indians who have a Vedantist axe to grind. E.g., Radhakrishnan.
* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom


http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... t&p=451082" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you don't agree, and can defend the translations and your pov, please state your case in detail. I would be interested to read it, and see what Ajahn Dhammanando has to say.

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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tiltbillings
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by tiltbillings »

Manapa wrote:hi Chris

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.

how do you know they don't know a word of Pali, and not just using a method which they are use too?
Whether he knows Pali or not, it is not a very good translation. There are better.
* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.

how do you know they are imagining themselves to be poets? and not just put their knowledge and understanding of the phrases accross
If you read their translations, you see they are trying very hard to put the text into a poetic verse form. It is successful. Well, as I have said, there are better translations.
* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom

whats wrong with the name Thomas? what if a thomas translated it better than has been done before, should it be discarded?
Nothing is wrong with the name Thomas. It just happens that some very bad translation have been done by guys with that name.
I'll stick to reading what is available and only discard things which I find not to be useful, instead of reading what others think is useful.
It is worth several translations, but it is also worth getting good ones recommended by people who might know of what they speak.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Does anyone know where to get a hardcover copy of Narada Thera's Dhammapada?
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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cooran
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by cooran »

Hello Khalil Bodhi,

You can buy it online here:
Dhammapad by Narada Thera
The Dhammapada consists of four hundred and twenty three melodious Pali verses, uttered by the Buddha on about three hundred occasions, to suit the temperaments of the listeners in the course of his preaching tours during his ministry of forty five years. This book is the hand book of Buddhists. It should be re-read. Then it may serve as a constant companion for inspiration, solace and edification in times of need.
There are twenty six Vaggas in the Dhammapada and each Vagga has a specific topic. The verses of each Vagga have great meanings according to the topic and each verse has a story. This book presents the Pali verses, the meanings and the stories to an order.
The author has included the Pali Alphabet at the very start of the book.
$ 10 Online Item Code B818
http://buddhistcc.net/bookshop/book_info.asp?bid=279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Thank you much Chris. Mettaya.
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by sukhamanveti »

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for the information. I am still collecting Dhammapada translations.

Two of the four Dhammapada translations that I own are by highly regarded translators. I think it is possible that Ven. Dhammanado might approve. One is the 1995 edition of the translation by Ven. Ananda Maitreya with language updated by semanticist Rose Kramer. (Ven. Ananda Maitreya Thera was "the Supreme Chief of the Amarapura sect" in Sri Lanka and one of the teachers of Bhikkhu Bodhi.) The other is the 2000 (corrected) edition of The Word of the Doctrine, translated by the Pali scholar K.R. Norman. It has a very informative introduction and copious notes in the back, addressing Norman's choices in translating the text.

EDIT: I corrected the title of Norman's translation with the insertion of "the."
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5
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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Cittasanto »

hi Chris,
my sole POV is Ehipasiko. I have no interest in defending, people use the most familiar method to them or the best way they think to put their understanding across, they are more than capable of defending themselves if they want to.

I am not going to disregard one translation just because someone says they are to be avoided, or because the translator has a good or bad reputation, I will disregard a translation because I don't find it useful. your trust comment reminds me of a passage in the Kalama sutta BTW.

but the question everyone should ask themselves is, what is more important scriptural accuracy, or developing understanding.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Tilt,

the proof is in the pudding. not the recommendation of the pudding.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by tiltbillings »

the proof is in the pudding. not the recommendation of the pudding.
Then eat, by all means. You have a list of bad translations; buy them and read in comparison with the recommended good translations.

On the other hand when someone who is highly knowledgeable, such a Ven D, recommends, that can be a good, helpful thing. Any reason for not listening and taking such recommendations?

Also, in reading a bad translation that you find "helpful," how do you know you are not being lead astray by it?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Tilt,
where have I said, not to accept recommendations? I have not said that, "instead of reading what others think is useful" is not saying not too heed recommendations. and whom do you recommend I listen to? those of reputation, those who disparage what they find useless, and praise what they find useful, or those who suggest what they find good without criticising what they don't?
knowledge does not equate understanding, or wisdom, and finding the truth for yourself does mean investigation!

I have actually most of the translations mentioned having ones from both lists on my book shelf, or on file on my computer.

the proof is in the pudding. not the recommendation of the pudding
this means that the effectiveness is not judged by what others say, or accuracy in translation of words, but by what the results of following the practice is.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by tiltbillings »

Some translations are crappy and other are quite good. Not saying that the crappy translations are crappy does not make them less crappy. Until you learn Pali, you are stuck with reading other's translations, and following the Kalama Sutta, listening to the knowledgeable is not a bad thing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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