The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

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The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:10 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:19 am

Having a big family is 'stupid'?
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby puthujjana » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:27 am

"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "

<irony> :clap: </irony>


:arrow: "Every Sperm is Sacred": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby genkaku » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:10 am

Did you ever notice -- or am I just imagining? -- that as soon as anyone brings a 'meaning' to things, the trouble begins?
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:26 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:Having a big family is 'stupid'?


The article is not just about big families, it is mainly about why those families are big.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:31 am

With Metta
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:36 am

I couldn't resist and quote Monty Pythons end of the "Every Sperm is Sacred" sketch:

DAD:
I can't keep you all here any longer! God has blessed us so much, I can't afford to feed you anymore.
NIGEL:
Couldn't you have your b**** cut off?
DAD:
Hohh, it's not as simple as that, Nigel. God knows all! He'd see through such a cheap trick. What we do to ourselves, we do to Him.
GIRL:
You could have had them pulled off in an accident.
CHILDREN:
[talking]
DAD:
No. No, children. I know you're trying to help, but, believe me,...
CHILDREN:
Ohh...
DAD:
...me mind's made up. I've given this long and careful thought, and it has to be medical experiments for the lot of you.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Visākhā

Visākhā had ten sons and ten daughters, each of whom had a similar number of children, and so on down to the fourth generation. Before her death, at the age of one hundred and twenty, she had eighty four thousand and twenty direct lineal descendants, all living.
AIM WebsiteMy ForumsPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby clw_uk » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:21 pm

The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says.


ROFL :rofl: :rofl: :jumping:
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Dan74 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Check out how 10% of population of China has surnames Wang or Chen! Now they are not necessarily from the same two families, but there had to be an explosion there somewhere. While the majority of the surnames have died out!
_/|\_
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:35 pm

Rui Sousa wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:Having a big family is 'stupid'?


The article is not just about big families, it is mainly about why those families are big.

I'm sorry, I don't really get it. I think you think the family's intentions are misplaced... but it's what they believe and I don't think they're necessarily harming anyone. I'm sure there are examples where Christians think our intentions are misplaced (like vegetarianism, for example, whilst not 'required' it's practiced widely).

Just my opinion... but I don't get it :s... why are they 'stupid'?
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby clw_uk » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Hi Mawkish


Nothing wrong with wanting a big family and if there religous belief is that they should then no one should tell them different, as long as they are going to be responsible in caring for so many kids


I think there "stupid" because some of them seem to be using their family size to wage some kind of battle


"We look across the Islamic world and we see that they are outnumbering us in their family size, and they are in many places and many countries taking over those nations, without a jihad, just by multiplication," Campbell says.


And

The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says



So its silly in a sense that some are letting their religous fever and paranoia lead them to think that by having a big family they can somehow lead the world (or at least USA)

Metta
Open your mind and see, open your mind and rise. Shine the light of wisdom and see, don't wait till the end of time.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Fede » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:35 pm

Nowhere, is Christian religious zeal and fanaticism practised in such an overt way, than in America.
I apologise to my good american friends, I mean no offense to them, but some American Christian attitudes are not only laughable, but they defy belief....!
I occasionally view the American Christian Channels on Sky, and it would be hilarious if it didn't actually sound so dangerous.
Fanatical doesn't cover it...
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:16 pm

clw_uk wrote:(..)I think there "stupid" because some of them seem to be using their family size to wage some kind of battle(..)


Thank you clw_uk, that is exactly my point.

Instead of having children our of compassion, for example to give a big number of beings the opportunity to be raised in a loving and caring family, which I would be fine with, they are posing their children as little soldiers in a war against the infidel.

Monty Python sketch is satirizing having a bunch of children because "god wants to" and then failing to provide proper feeding, but all is ok because that is God's will. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with having a huge family, as long as the mother can conceive without health risks and there hte ability to provide care for the children, but comparing the womb to a weapon seems to me as something as nonsense as Monty Python can be.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:08 pm

All good points, but what about 'Religion making people stupid'? Do you REALLY think that's the case? :s

Correlation is not causation.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:27 pm

puthujjana wrote: :arrow: "Every Sperm is Sacred": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk


just what I was thinking when I heard the article!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:30 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:All good points, but what about 'Religion making people stupid'? Do you REALLY think that's the case? :s

Correlation is not causation.


I don't think the OP is about religion making people stupid.
I think religion can in the wrong hands make people do stupid things, but people would do stupid things even if religion wasn't involved.

it takes a stupid mad to corrupt something good but a genius to follow him"
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby pink_trike » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:50 pm

The irrationality inherent to religion becomes internalized, conditioning the mind toward stupid and often dangerous irrationality outside the domain of religion. Its the rare mind that is capable of containing religion's patterns of irrationality within the boundaries of religion.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:51 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:All good points, but what about 'Religion making people stupid'? Do you REALLY think that's the case? :s

Correlation is not causation.


Hi Mawkish,

I think that a certain approach to religion can cause even intelligent people to think and act in ways that contradict overwhelming evidence. For example, in my country evangelical and fundamentalist Christians forced sex education classes out of schools and had them replaced with "abstinence-only education." Whenever this is reported on by the American news media studies* are cited showing that abstinence education in schools does not prevent teen pregnancy and can lead to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Evangelical Christians simply refuse to accept this any more than they accept the discoveries of Charles Darwin. I think that many other examples of this sort of blindness can be found, at least in the United States.

It is in this sense that I think it could be said that "religion makes people stupid."


* See for example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01003.html , http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/135002.php , etc.
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5
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Re: The never-ending capacity of religion making people stupid

Postby pink_trike » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:37 am

sukhamanveti wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:All good points, but what about 'Religion making people stupid'? Do you REALLY think that's the case? :s

Correlation is not causation.


Hi Mawkish,

I think that a certain approach to religion can cause even intelligent people to think and act in ways that contradict overwhelming evidence. For example, in my country evangelical and fundamentalist Christians forced sex education classes out of schools and had them replaced with "abstinence-only education." Whenever this is reported on by the American news media studies* are cited showing that abstinence education in schools does not prevent teen pregnancy and can lead to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Evangelical Christians simply refuse to accept this any more than they accept the discoveries of Charles Darwin. I think that many other examples of this sort of blindness can be found, at least in the United States.

It is in this sense that I think it could be said that "religion makes people stupid."


* See for example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01003.html , http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/135002.php , etc.


Agreed. Another example is those people who fervently believe, based on saddhu, that the earth is around 4k years old or some rubbish like that, even as contemporary sciences now place the earliest known evidence of human civilization at around 90,000 b.c. using conservative, rigorous scientific methods and accepted standards by which to define "civilization". Nothing can get past that armor of faith. This type of saddhu can even go beyond stupidity into psychosis.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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