Pornography

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:43 pm

Can one "use" it non-harmfully?
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Re: Pornography

Postby daverupa » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:55 pm

I'm of the opinion it breaches Right Livelihood via trade in humans. It also negatively affects one's ability to practice brahmaviharas. It is an indulgence in sensual gratification without seeing the danger or the escape.

:heart:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:12 am

daverupa wrote:...it breaches Right Livelihood via trade in humans....


How?

daverupa wrote:It also negatively affects one's ability to practice brahmaviharas.


How?

daverupa wrote:It is an indulgence in sensual gratification without seeing the danger or the escape.


For everyone?
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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:17 am

Greetings AnonOfIbid,

Someone is going to say it, so I may as well try to get in first and do it politely...

Within a few minutes, you've just started topics on the following subjects...

- Cannabis
- Pharmaceutical Antidepressants
- Pornography

Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read...

Craving: tanha
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... tanha.html

SN 22.63 wrote:"Monk, if you cling to anything, you are in bondage to Mara. If you do not cling, you are free of the Evil One."

Learning to release clinging involves seeing the danger and unsatisfactoriness in all formations. I would suggest that you follow this angle, rather than attempting to find loopholes to satisfy pre-existing cravings and defilements.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:21 am

retrofuturist wrote: Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? )


no...get off your high horse...i want answers NOT justifications
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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:25 am

Greetings,

That's fine... just have a serious look at what prompted your reaction just then. Don't rely on me to tell you - look within.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:28 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings AnonOfIbid,

Someone is going to say it, so I may as well try to get in first and do it politely...

Within a few minutes, you've just started topics on the following subjects...

- Cannabis
- Pharmaceutical Antidepressants
- Pornography

Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read...


I know what tanha is. Not new to ANY of this. There is no necessary connection between craving and and cannabis or porn use. NEVER HEARD anyone talk about pharmaceutical antidepressants in terms of tanha, upadana, etc.... Maybe the craving to address here is your craving to avoid quality discussions about important topics.
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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:30 am

retrofuturist wrote:... just have a serious look at what prompted your reaction just then. Don't rely on me to tell you - look within.


Wouldn't have posted without having done this already.
AnonOfIbid
 

Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:32 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings AnonOfIbid,

Someone is going to say it, so I may as well try to get in first and do it politely...

Within a few minutes, you've just started topics on the following subjects...

- Cannabis
- Pharmaceutical Antidepressants
- Pornography

Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read...


Why can't you just say "maybe," or does your clinging to views prevent that?
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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:34 am

Greetings AnonOfIbid,

AnonOfIbid wrote:There is no necessary connection between craving and and cannabis or porn use.

Well, provide us with as example then... bearing in mind the following.

Extract from Iti 50
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-058

"There are these three cravings. Which three? Craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. These are the three cravings."

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:36 am

Greetings,

AnonOfIbid wrote:Why can't you just say "maybe," or does your clinging to views prevent that?

"Maybe" what, exactly? These were questions and possibilities raised, not certainties...

retrofuturist wrote:Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read...

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:38 am

How does this not amount to an ad hominem attack? Isn't there a rule for such things? If not, there should be.
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings AnonOfIbid,

Someone is going to say it, so I may as well try to get in first and do it politely...

Within a few minutes, you've just started topics on the following subjects...

- Cannabis
- Pharmaceutical Antidepressants
- Pornography

Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read... )
AnonOfIbid
 

Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:44 am

Example: Q. Can one use porn non-harmfully? A. Maybe.
instead of the typical "well what do the texts say...?" i know what the canon and commentaries say...i want to know what THE LIVING Buddhas, dhamma & sangha have to say....the texts are only as good as their applicability and relevance to DAILY LIVING...

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

AnonOfIbid wrote:Why can't you just say "maybe," or does your clinging to views prevent that?

"Maybe" what, exactly? These were questions and possibilities raised, not certainties...

retrofuturist wrote:Is it possible, that you are seeking justifications for your cravings? The following might be worth a read...

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)
AnonOfIbid
 

Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:46 am

Greetings AnonOfIbid,

AnonOfIbid wrote:How does this not amount to an ad hominem attack? Isn't there a rule for such things? If not, there should be.

There is a rule, yes. Report the post if you like, and a moderator (not me) will independently have a look at it.

For all your defensiveness about it, I still stand by it being worthwhile advice, worth considering, even if it doesn't meet with your fancy.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:58 am

Greetings AnonOfIbid,
AnonOfIbid wrote:Example: Q. Can one use porn non-harmfully? A. Maybe.

That's hardly an example though, is it? It's just saying maybe.

Iti 50 wrote:"There are these three cravings. Which three? Craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. These are the three cravings."

How can one "use porn" without engaging in craving?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 am

retrofuturist wrote:How can one "use porn" without engaging in craving?
. How can one breathe, eat, make love, etc... without craving? Why preceptually single out porn?
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Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:09 am

Greetings,

AnonOfIbid wrote:How can one breathe... without craving?

MN 118: Anapanasati Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

AnonOfIbid wrote:How can one eat... without craving?

SN 12.63: Puttamansa Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:10 am

retrofuturist wrote:For all your defensiveness about it


You've inferred this from...? Not once have I felt "defensive" or intended "defensiveness."
AnonOfIbid
 

Re: Pornography

Postby AnonOfIbid » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:12 am

is this how YOU eat and breathe?
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

AnonOfIbid wrote:How can one breathe... without craving?

MN 118: Anapanasati Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

AnonOfIbid wrote:How can one eat... without craving?

SN 12.63: Puttamansa Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
AnonOfIbid
 

Re: Pornography

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:17 am

Greetings,

AnonOfIbid wrote:You've inferred this from...? Not once have I felt "defensive" or intended "defensiveness."

You interpreted something that clearly wasn't an ad-hominem attack, as an ad-hominem attack.

AnonOfIbid wrote:is this how YOU eat and breathe?

When I do so mindfully, yes.

When I do so unmindfully, no.

Unless eating, breathing and craving have fundamentally changed over the past 2500 or so years, the Buddha's instructions are as good as they ever were.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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