Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:15 am

Hello all,

Paali Primer
Exercise 2
Translate into English
1. Tathaagato dhamma.m bhaasati.
Buddha / truth / speaks
The Buddha speaks the truth.

2. Braahma.naa odana.m bhu~njanti.
brahmins / rice / eat
Brahmins eat rice.

3. Manusso suriya.m passati.
man / sun / sees
The man sees the sun.

4. Kumaaraa sigaale paharanti.
boys / jackals / hit
Boys hit the jackals.

5. Yaacakaa bhatta.m yaacanti.
beggars / rice / beg
- Beggars beg [for] rice.
- Beggars ask for rice.

6. Kassakaa aavaa.te kha.nanti.
farmers / pits / dig
Farmers dig pits.

7. Mitto gaama.m aagacchati.
friend / [to] village / comes
The friend comes to the village.

8. Bhuupaalo manusse rakkhati.
king / people / protects
The king protects the people.

9. Puttaa pabbata.m gacchanti.
sons / [to] mountain / go
Sons go to the mountain.

10. Kumaaro Buddha.m vandati.
boy / Buddha / worships
- The boy worships the Buddha.
- The boy pays respect to the Buddha.

11. Vaa.nijaa patte aaharanti.
merchants / bowls / bring
Merchants bring bowls.

12. Puriso vihaara.m gacchati.
man / [to] monastery / goes
The man goes to the monastery.

13. Kukkuraa pabbata.m dhaavanti.
dogs / [to] mountain / run
Dogs run to the mountain.

14. Sigaalaa gaama.m aagacchanti.
jackals / [to] village / come
Jackals come to the village.

15. Braahma.naa sahaayake aaharanti.
brahmins / friends / bring
Brahmins bring friends.

16. Bhuupaalaa Sugata.m vandanti.
kings / Buddha / worship
Kings worship the Buddha.

17. Yaacakaa sayanti.
beggars / sleep
Beggars sleep.

18. Mittaa sunakhe haranti.
friends / dogs / take away
Friends take the dogs away.

19. Putto canda.m passati.
son / moon / sees
The son sees the moon.

20. Kassako gaama.m dhaavati.
farmer / [to] village / runs
The farmer runs to the village.

21. Vaa.nijaa rukkhe chindanti.
merchants / trees / cut
Merchants cut trees.

22. Naro sigaala.m vijjhati.
man / jackal / shoots
The man shoots the jackal.

23. Kumaaro odana.m bhu~njati.
boy / rice / eats
The boy eats rice.

24. Yaacako so.na.m paharati.
beggar / dog / hits
The beggar hits the dog.

25. Sahaayakaa pabbate aaruhanti.
friends / mountains / climb
Friends climb mountains.

Translate into Paali
1. Men go to the monastery.
naraa / gacchanti / vihaara.m
Naraa vihaara.m gacchanti.

2. Farmers climb mountains.
kassakaa / aaruhanti / pabbate
Kassakaa pabbate aaruhanti.

3. The brahmin eats rice.
braahma.no / bhu~njati / odana.m
Braahma.no odana.m bhu~njati.

4. The Buddha sees the boys.
Buddho / kumaare / passati
Buddho kumaare passati.

5. Uncles take away bowls.
maatulaa / haranti / patte
Maatulaa patte haranti.

6. The son protects the dog.
putto / rakkhati / kukkura.m
Putto kukkura.m rakkhati.

7. The king worships the Buddha.
bhuupaalo / vandati / Buddha.m
Bhuupaalo Buddha.m vandati.

8. The merchant brings a boy.
vaa.nijo / aaharati / kumaara.m
Vaa.nijo kumaara.m aaharati.

9. Friends salute the brahmin.
mittaa / vandanti / braahma.na.m
Mittaa braahma.na.m vandanti.

10. Beggars beg rice.
yaacakaa / yaacanti / odana.m
Yaacakaa odana.m yaacanti.

11. Merchants shoot jackals.
vaa.nijaa / vijjhanti / sigaale
Vaa.nijaa sigaale vijjhanti.

12. Boys climb the mountain.
kumaaraa / aaruhanti / pabbata.m
Kumaaraa pabbata.m aaruhanti.

13. The farmer runs to the village.
kassako / dhaavati / gaama.m
Kassako gaama.m dhaavati.

14. The merchant cooks rice.
vaa.nijo / pacati / bhatta.m
Vaa.nijo bhatta.m pacati.

15. Sons worship the uncle.
puttaa / vandanti / maatula.m
Puttaa maatula.m vandanti.

16. Kings protect men.
bhuupaalaa / rakkhanti / nare
Bhuupaalaa nare rakkhanti.

17. The Buddha comes to the monastery.
Buddho / aagacchati / vihaara.m
Buddho vihaara.m aagacchati.

18. The men descend.
naraa / oruhanti
Naraa oruhanti.

19. Farmers dig pits.
kassakaa / kha.nanti / aavaa.te
Kassakaa aavaa.te kha.nanti.

20. The merchant runs.
vaa.nijo / dhaavati
Vaa.nijo dhaavati.

21. The dog sees the moon.
kukkuro / passati / canda.m
Kukkuro canda.m passati.

22. Boys climb trees.
kumaaraa / aaruhanti / rukkhe
Kumaaraa rukkhe aaruhanti.

23. The brahmin brings the bowl.
braahma.no / aaharati / patta.m
Braahma.no patta.m aaharati.

24. The beggar sleeps.
yaacako / sayati
Yaacako sayati.

25. The king sees the Buddha.
bhuupaalo / passati / Buddha.m
Bhuupaalo Buddha.m passati.

metta,
cooran
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby pt1 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:31 am

Hi Chris and all,

A few questions regarding lesson 2:
1. Tathaagato dhamma.m bhaasati.
The Buddha speaks the truth.

Can this also be translated as: "The Buddha speaks about the truth", or would that be a different declension case?
13. Kukkuraa pabbata.m dhaavanti.
Dogs run to the mountain.

So, in English, accusative is always with "to" + place? I was inclined to translate this as "Dogs run on the mountain", but I'm guessing that would also be a different declension case?

Why is "the" used translating 18 (the dogs), but not in 21 (trees)? Is "the" here optional because these are simple examples without context, or is there some specific necessity for "the" that I'm missing?
18. Mittaa sunakhe haranti.
Friends take the dogs away.

21. Vaa.nijaa rukkhe chindanti.
Merchants cut trees.

Thanks
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:16 pm

I am going to be a very poor substitute for Ven D. So, until his internet connxion gets fixed, I'll offer:

pt1 wrote:Hi Chris and all,

A few questions regarding lesson 2:
1. Tathaagato dhamma.m bhaasati.
The Buddha speaks the truth.

Can this also be translated as: "The Buddha speaks about the truth", or would that be a different declension case?


These are simple - in English - noun, verb, and direct object sentences. The best advice is keep it simple. Speaking the truth is different from speaking about the truth. That sentence would read a bit differently, probably needing a prepesitional adverb. Follow the examples given in each lesson.


13. Kukkuraa pabbata.m dhaavanti.
Dogs run to the mountain.

So, in English, accusative is always with "to" + place? I was inclined to translate this as "Dogs run on the mountain", but I'm guessing that would also be a different declension case?


"On the mountain" would be a locative case. The "to" is from the verb.

Why is "the" used translating 18 (the dogs), but not in 21 (trees)? Is "the" here optional because these are simple examples without context, or is there some specific necessity for "the" that I'm missing?
18. Mittaa sunakhe haranti.
Friends take the dogs away.

21. Vaa.nijaa rukkhe chindanti.
Merchants cut trees.

Thanks


If you want you can put a "the" in from of trees.

And, of course, I stand to be corrected on any of this. It has been so long since I have really worked with Pali.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:44 pm

Hello Tilt, all,

Thanks for helping out until Ajahn is in communication again. :group:

:anjali:

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:45 pm

Hello all,

Pali Primer Exercise 3

Translate into English:

1. Buddho sāvakehi saddhiṃ vihāraṃ gacchati.
Buddha / [with] disciples / with / [to] monastery / goes
The Buddha goes to the monastery with [his] disciples.

2. Puriso puttena saha dīpaṃ dhāvati.
man / [with] son / with / [to] island / runs
The man runs to the island with [his] son.

3. Kassako sarena sigālaṃ vijjhati.
farmer / [with] arrow / jackal / shoots
The farmer shoots the jackal with (an) arrow.

4. Brāhmaṇā mātulena saha pabbataṃ āruhanti.
brahmins / [with] uncle / with / mountain / climb
Brahmins climb the mountain with uncle.

5. Puttā pādehi kukkure paharanti.
sons / [with] feet / dogs / hit
- Sons hit the dogs with feet.
- Sons kick the dogs.

6. Mātulo puttehi saddhiṃ rathena gāmaṃ āgacchati.
uncle / [with] sons / with / by chariot / [to] village / comes
The uncle comes to the village with [his] sons by a chariot.

7. Kumārā hatthehi patte āharanti.
boys / [by the means of] hands / bowls / bring
Boys bring the bowls by hands.

8. Coro maggena assaṃ harati.
thief / [by the means of] road / horse / takes away
The thief takes away the horse along the road.

9. Kassako āvāṭaṃ oruhati.
farmer / [to] pit / descends
- The farmer descends to the pit.
- The farmer gets down to the pit.

10. Bhūpālā paṇḍitehi saha samaṇe passanti.
kings / [with] wise men / with / monks / see
Kings, [together] with the wise men, see the monks.

11. Paṇḍito bhūpālena saha Tathāgataṃ vandati.
wise man / [with] king / with / Buddha / worships
The wise man, [together] with the king, worships the Buddha.

12. Puttā sahāyena saddhiṃ odanaṃ bhuñjanti.
sons / [with] friend / with / rice / eat
Sons eat rice with [a] friend.

13. Vāṇijo pāsāṇena migaṃ paharati.
merchant / [with] stone / deer / hits
The merchant hits [a] deer with [a] stone.

14. Sunakhā pādehi āvāṭe khaṇanti.
dogs / [with] feet / pits / dig
Dogs dig pits with [their] feet.

15. Brāhmaṇo puttena saha suriyaṃ vandati.
brahmin / [with] son / with / sun / worships
The brahmin, [together] with [his] son, worships the sun.

16. Kassako soṇehi saddhiṃ rukkhe rakkhati.
farmer / [with] dogs / with / trees / protects
The farmer protects trees with dogs.

17. Sugato sāvakehi saha vihāraṃ āgacchati.
Buddha / [with] disciples / with / [to] monastery / comes
Buddha comes to the monastery with [his] disciples.

18. Yācako pattena bhattaṃ āharati.
beggar / [by the means of] bowl / rice / brings
The beggar brings rice in [a] bowl.

19. Paṇḍitā saggaṃ gacchanti.
wise men / heaven / go
Wise men go to heaven.

20. Kumārā assehi saddhiṃ gāmaṃ dhāvanti.
boys / [with] horses / with / [to] village / run
Boys run to the village with horses.

21. Coro khaggena naraṃ paharati.
thief / [by the means of] sword / man / hits
The thief hits the man with [a] sword.

22. Vāṇijo sakaṭena dīpe āharati.
merchant / [by the means of] cart / lamps / brings
The merchant brings lamps by [a] cart.

23. Assā maggena dhāvanti.
horses / [by the means of] path / run
- Horses run through the path/road.
- Horses run along the path/road.

24. Sigālā migehi saddhiṃ pabbataṃ dhāvanti.
jackals / [with] deer / with / [to] mountain / run
Jackals run to the mountain with deer.

25. Bhūpālo paṇḍitena saha manusse rakkhati.
king / [with] wise man / with / people / protects
The king, [together] with [a] wise man, protects the people.

Translate into Pali:

1. The recluse sees the Buddha with his friend.
samaṇo / passati / Buddhaṃ / mittena saha
Samaṇo mittena saha Buddhaṃ passati.

2. Disciples go to the monastery with the Buddha.
sāvakā / gacchanti / viharaṃ / Buddhena saha
Sāvakā Buddhena saha viharaṃ gacchanti.

3. The horse runs to the mountain with the dogs.
asso / dhāvati / pabbataṃ / kukkurehi saddhiṃ
Asso kukkurehi saddhiṃ pabbataṃ dhāvati.

4. The boy hits the lamp with a stone.
kumāro / paharati / dīpaṃ / pāsāṇena
Kumāro pāsāṇena dīpaṃ paharati.

5. Merchants shoot deer with arrows.
vāṇijā / vijjhanti / mige / sarehi
Vāṇijā sarehi mige vijjhanti.

6. Farmers dig pits with their hands.
kassakā / khaṇanti / āvāṭe / hatthehi
Kassakā hatthehi āvāṭe khaṇanti.

7. Boys go to the monastery by chariot with their uncle.
kumārā / gacchanti / vihāraṃ / rathena / mātulena saha
Kumārā mātulena saha rathena vihāraṃ gacchanti.

8. The brahmin cooks rice with his friend.
brāhmaṇo / pacati / bhattaṃ / mittena saha
Brāhmaṇo mittena saha bhattaṃ pacati.

9. The king protects the island with wise men.
bhūpālo / rakkhati / dīpaṃ / paṇḍitehi saha
Bhūpālo paṇḍitehi saha dīpaṃ rakkhati.

10. Kings worship monks with their sons.
bhūpālā / vandanti / samaṇe / puttehi saha
Bhūpālā puttehi saha samaṇe vandanti.

11. Thieves bring horses to the island.
corā / āharanti / asse / dīpaṃ
Corā asse dīpaṃ āharanti.

12. Disciples climb mountains with men.
sāvakā / āruhanti / pabbate / narehi saha
Sāvakā narehi saha pabbate āruhanti.

13. Merchants cut trees with farmers.
vāṇijā / chindanti / rukkhe / kassakehi saha
Vāṇijā kassakehi saha rukkhe chindanti.

14. The beggar digs a pit with a friend.
yācako / khaṇati / āvāṭaṃ / mittena saha
Yācako mittena saha āvāṭaṃ khaṇati.

15. The brahmin sees the moon with his uncles.
brāhmaṇo / passati / candaṃ / mātulehi saha
Brāhmaṇo mātulehi saha candaṃ passati.

16. The thief hits the horse with a sword.
coro / paharati / assaṃ / khaggena
Coro khaggena assaṃ paharati.

17. The son brings rice in a bowl.
putto / āharati / odanaṃ / pattena
Putto pattena odanaṃ āharati.

18. Boys run to the mountain with their dogs.
kumārā / dhāvanti / pabbataṃ / kukkurehi saddhiṃ
Kumārā kukkurehi saddhiṃ pabbataṃ dhāvanti.

19. Merchants come to the village by carts with farmers.
vāṇijā / āgacchanti / gāmaṃ / sakaṭehi / kassakehi saha
Vāṇijā kassakehi saha sakaṭehi gāmaṃ āgacchanti.

20. Uncles come to the monastery by chariots with their sons.
mātulā / āgacchanti / vihāraṃ / rathehi / puttehi saha
Mātulā puttehi saha rathehi vihāraṃ āgacchanti.

21. Jackals run to the mountain along the road.
sigālā / dhāvanti / pabbataṃ / maggena
Sigālā maggena pabbataṃ dhāvanti.

22. Dogs dig pits with their feet.
kukkurā / khaṇanti / āvāṭe / pādehi
Kukkurā pādehi āvāṭe khaṇanti.

23. The man carries a saw in his hand.
naro / harati / kakacaṃ / hatthena
Naro hatthena kakacaṃ harati.

24. Recluses go to heaven.
samaṇā / gacchanti / saggaṃ
Samaṇā saggaṃ gacchanti.

25. The Buddha comes to the village with his disciples.
Buddho / āgacchati / gāmaṃ / sāvakehi saddhiṃ
Buddho sāvakehi saddhiṃ gāmaṃ āgacchati.

Notes:

1. The words 'saha' and 'saddhiṃ' are indeclinables. They are used only to express the meaning of accompaniment. One exception is when "talking" or "discussing" with a person, there is no need for 'saha' and 'saddhiṃ'. [See Warder's Lesson 8 for more details.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:03 am

Hi Pt,

pt1 wrote:So, in English, accusative is always with "to" + place? I was inclined to translate this as "Dogs run on the mountain", but I'm guessing that would also be a different declension case?


"To..." is normally indicated with the dative case. An exception is when the sentence contains a verb of motion; here the object of the verb will be in the accusative case (as in Latin and Greek).

"Run on the mountain" would require the locative case.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
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    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby pt1 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:01 am

Thanks tilt and thanks Ven.Dhammanando for your help.

I recall there is something like "help questions" which help determine which preposition should be used with a certain declension case, but I only remember two cases:

Nominative: Who? What?
Dative: To whom? To what?

Anyone remembers other cases?

Thanks
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:19 am

pt1 wrote:Anyone remembers other cases?


Nominative: Who?
Accusative: Whom?
Instrumental: By/with/through whom?
Dative: To/for the sake of whom?
Ablative: From/because of whom?
Genitive: Whose?
Locative: In/on/near whom?
Vocative: O who?
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby pt1 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:21 am

Thank you Bhante, that will be very useful for the coming lessons.

Best wishes
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:30 am

Hello Ajahn, all,

Paali Primer

Exercise 4


Translate into English
1. Coraa gaamamhaa pabbata.m dhaavanti.
thieves / [from] village / [to] mountain / run
Thieves run from the village to the mountain.

2. Daarako maatulasmaa odana.m yaacati.
child / [from] uncle / rice / begs
The child begs [for] rice from the uncle.

3. Kumaaro sopaanamhaa patati.
boy / [from] stairway / falls
The boy falls from the stairway/steps.

4. Maatulaa saa.take dhovanti.
uncles / garments / wash
Uncles wash garments.

5. Dhiivaraa pi.takehi macche aaharanti.
fishermen / [in] baskets / fish / bring
Fishermen bring fish in baskets.

6. Upaasakaa sama.nehi saddhi.m vihaarasmaa nikkhamanti.
lay devotees / [with] monks / with / [from] monastery / set out
- Lay devotees set out from the monastery with monks.
- Lay devotess leave the monastery with monks.

7. Braahma.no kakacena rukkha.m chindati.
brahmin / [with] saw / tree / cuts
The brahmin cuts the tree with [a] saw.

8. Kumaaraa mittehi saha bhuupaala.m passanti.
boys / [with] friends / with / king / see
Boys, (together) with friends, see the king.

9. Vaa.nijo assena saddhi.m pabbatasmaa oruhati.
merchant / [with] horse / with / [from] mountain / descends
The merchant descends from the mountain with [his] horse.

10. Yaacako kassakasmaa so.na.m yaacati.
beggar / [from] farmer / dog / begs
- The beggar begs (for) the dog from the farmer.
- The beggar begs the farmer for the dog.

11. Sappaa pabbatehi gaama.m otaranti.
serpents / [from] mountains / [to] village / descend
Serpents descend to the village from the mountains.

12. Amaccaa sarehi mige vijjhanti.
ministers / [with] arrows / deer / shoot
The ministers shoot deer using arrows.

13. Coro gaamamhaa saka.tena saa.take harati.
thief / [from] village / [in] cart / garments / takes away
The thief takes away the garments from the village in [a] cart.

14. Bhuupaalo amaccehi saddhi.m rathena paasaada.m aagacchati.
king / [with] ministers / with / [by] chariot / [to] palace / comes
The king comes to the palace with [his] ministers by a chariot.

15. Suukaraa paadehi aavaa.te kha.nanti.
pigs / [with] feet / pits / dig
Pigs dig pits with [their] feet.

16. Kumaaro sahaayakehi saha saa.take dhovati.
boy / [with] friends / with / garments / washes
The boy washes the garments with friends.

17. Sama.naa gaamamhaa upaasakehi saddhi.m nikkhamanti.
monks / [from] village / [with] lay devotees / with / leave
Monks leave the village with lay devotees.

18. Kukkuro pi.takamhaa maccha.m khaadati.
dog / [from] basket / fish / eat
The dog eats a fish from the basket.

19. Mitto puttamhaa sunakha.m yaacati.
friend / [from] son / dog / begs
- The friend begs the son for the dog.
- The friend asks for the dog from the son.

20. Buddho saavake pucchati
Buddha / disciples / questions
The Buddha questions [his] disciples.

21. Amaccaa pa.n.ditehi pa~nhe pucchanti.
ministers / [from] wise men / questions / ask
- The ministers ask the wise men questions.
- The ministers ask questions from the wise men.

22. Rajako sahaayena saha saa.taka.m dhovati.
washerman / [with] friend / with / garment / washes
The washerman washes the garment with [a] friend.

23. Macchaa pi.takamhaa patanti.
fish / [from] basket / fall
Fish fall from the basket.

24. Coraa paasaa.nehi varaahe paharanti.
thieves / [with] stones / pigs / hit
The thieves hit the pigs with stones.

25. Amacco paasaadamhaa suva.m aaharati
minister / [from] palace / parrot / brings
The minister brings the parrot from the palace.

Translate into Paali
1. Horses run from the village to the mountain.
assaa / dhaavanti / gaamamhaa / pabbata.m
Assaa gaamamhaa pabbata.m dhaavanti.

2. Merchants come from the island to the monastery with lay devotees.
vaa.nijaa / aagacchanti / diipasmaa / vihaara.m / upaasakehi saha
Vaa.nijaa upaasakehi saha diipasmaa vihaara.m aagacchanti.

3. Thieves shoot pigs with arrows.
coraa / vijjhanti / suukare / sarehi
Coraa sarehi suukare vijjhanti.

4. The lay devotee questions (about) the dhamma from the recluse.
upaasako / pucchati / dhamma.m / sama.namhaa
Upaasako sama.namhaa dhamma.m pucchati.

5. The child falls from the rock with a friend.
daarako / patati / paasaa.nasmaa / mittena saha
Daarako mittena saha paasaa.nasmaa patati.

6. The dog bites the child.
kukkuro / .dasati / daaraka.m
Kukkuro daaraka.m .dasati.

7. Ministers set out from the palace with the king.
amaccaa / nikkhamanti / paasaadamhaa / bhuupaalena saha
Amaccaa bhuupaalena saha paasaadamhaa nikkhamanti.

8. The man brings a deer from the island.
naro / aaharati / miga.m / diipasmaa
Naro diipasmaa miga.m aaharati.

9. The farmer gets down from the tree.
kassako / oruhati / rukkhamhaa
Kassako rukkhamhaa oruhati.

10. Dogs run along the road with horses.
kukkuraa / dhaavanti / maggena / assehi saddhi.m
Kukkuraa assehi saddhi.m maggena dhaavanti.

11. Boys take away lamps from merchants.
kumaaraa / haranti / diipe / vaa.nijehi
Kumaaraa vaa.nijehi diipe haranti.

12. The thief gets down from the stairway.
coro / oruhati / sopaanasmaa
Coro sopaanasmaa oruhati.

13. Merchants bring parrots from mountains.
vaa.nijaa / aaharanti / suve / pabbatehi
Vaa.nijaa pabbatehi suve aaharanti.

14. The horse hits the serpent with its foot.
asso / paharati / sappa.m / paadena
Asso paadena sappa.m paharati.

15. The uncle, with his friends, sees recluses from the mountains.
maatulo / mittehi saha / passati / sama.ne / pabbatehi
Maatulo mittehi saha pabbatehi sama.ne passati.

16. Merchants bring horses to the palace from the island.
vaa.nijaa / aaharanti / asse / paasaada.m / diipamhaa
Vaa.nijaa diipamhaa asse paasaada.m aaharanti.

17. The minister questions the thief.
amacco / pucchati / cora.m
Amacco cora.m pucchati.

18. The farmer eats rice with the washerman.
kassako / bhu~njati / odana.m / rajakena saha
Kassako rajakena saha odana.m bhu~njati.

19. The child falls from the stairway.
daarako / patati / sopaanamhaa
Daarako sopaanamhaa patati.

20. The fisherman climbs the mountain with his uncle.
dhiivaro / aaruhati / pabbata.m / maatulena saha
Dhiivaro maatulena saha pabbata.m aaruhati.

21. The beggar, together with his dog, sleeps.
yaacako / kukkurena saddhi.m / sayati
Yaacako kukkurena saddhi.m sayati.

22. Kings protect islands with their ministers.
bhuupaalaa / rakkhanti / diipe / amaccehi saha
Bhuupaalaa amaccehi saha diipe rakkhanti.

23. The king worships the Buddha from his palace.
bhuupaalo / vandati / Buddha.m / paasaadasmaa
Bhuupaalo paasaadasmaa Buddha.m vandati.

24. The man kills a serpent with a sword.
naro / hanati / sappa.m / khaggena
Naro khaggena sappa.m hanati.

25. Fishermen bring fish to the village in carts.
dhiivaraa / aaharanti / macche / gaama.m / saka.tehi
Dhiivaraa saka.tehi macche gaama.m aaharanti.

26. Pigs run from the village to the mountain.
suukaraa / dhaavanti / gaamamhaa / pabbata.m
Suukaraa gaamamhaa pabbata.m dhaavanti.

27. Lay devotees ask questions from the wise man.
upaasakaa / pucchanti / pa~nhe / pa.n.ditasmaa
Upaasakaa pa.n.ditasmaa pa~nhe pucchanti.

28. The son brings a parrot from the tree.
putto / aaharati / suka.m / rukkhamhaa
Putto rukkhamhaa suka.m aaharati.

29. Wise men go to the monastery.
pa.n.ditaa / gacchanti / vihaara.m
Pa.n.ditaa vihaara.m gacchanti.

30. Disciples go along the road to the village.
saavakaa / gacchanti / maggena / gaama.m
Saavakaa maggena gaama.m gacchanti.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:

1. The noun following "nikkhamati" takes the ablative form:
Eg: Ministers leave the palace.
amaccaa / nikkhamanti / paasaadasmaa
Amaccaa paasaadasmaa nikkhamanti.

2(a) pucchati: questions
The minister questions the thief.
Amacco cora.m pucchati.

2(b) The minister questions the dhamma from the Buddha.
Amacco Buddhasmaa dhamma.m pucchati.

3. Do not confuse the following words:
...saka.ta - cart, saa.taka - garment;
...dhaavati - runs, dhovati - washes;
...kha.nati - digs, khaadati - eats.

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:55 pm

Hi all,

Several of the sentences for translation composed by De Silva seem defective to me. My impression is that she is simply translating her thoughts word for word from English to Pali without checking how things are actually expressed in the Pali texts.

2. Daarako maatulasmaa odana.m yaacati.
child / [from] uncle / rice / begs
The child begs [for] rice from the uncle.

[...]

19. Mitto puttamhaa sunakha.m yaacati.
friend / [from] son / dog / begs
- The friend begs the son for the dog.
- The friend asks for the dog from the son.

[...]

10. Yaacako kassakasmaa so.na.m yaacati.
beggar / [from] farmer / dog / begs
- The beggar begs (for) the dog from the farmer.
- The beggar begs the farmer for the dog.


In Pali texts when someone asks someone for something, both the thing asked for and the person from whom it is asked usually take the accusative:

sama.na.m gotama.m okaasa.m yaacanti
“They beg the ascetic Gotama for permission [to go forth].”

ma.m methunadhamma.m yaacati
“He begs me for sexual intercourse.”


So in the above examples it would be better if the original sentences read:

daarako maatula.m odana.m yaacati

mitto putta.m sunakha.m yaacati

yaacako kassaka.m so.na.m yaacati

The ablative case is, however, used with the past participle ‘yaacita’:

ca.n.dalehi yaacita.m bhojana.m bhu~njati
“He eats food begged from outcastes.”


18. Kukkuro pi.takamhaa maccha.m khaadati.
dog / [from] basket / fish / eat
The dog eats a fish from the basket.


The original sentence would imply that the dog eats the fish after it’s been removed from the basket. If the dog is eating the fish while it’s still in the basket then pi.taka should be in the locative case: pi.take.

4. The lay devotee questions (about) the dhamma from the recluse.
upaasako / pucchati / dhamma.m / sama.namhaa
Upaasako sama.namhaa dhamma.m pucchati.

[...]

27. Lay devotees ask questions from the wise man.
upaasakaa / pucchanti / pa~nhe / pa.n.ditasmaa
Upaasakaa pa.n.ditasmaa pa~nhe pucchanti.


Like yaacati, the verb pucchati usually takes a double accusative:

upaasako sama.na.m dhamma.m pucchati

upaasakaa pa.n.dita.m pa~nhe pucchanti

Alternatively, the thing asked about may be expressed in the locative case.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:45 am

pt1 wrote:Thanks for posting the answers and the additional vocabulary Chris. I agree with Branko, my memory is not that strong and only on the second time around did a few words stick. I remember we were thought in elementary school that the key is repetition - i think it was something like - repeat after the lesson, the next day, the next week, the next month, and then it will hopefully stick, so I'll try with that approach.

One thing I keep forgetting is to take the diacritics into account - especially the long ones - like aa, uu, etc. my brain just filters out the diacritics in a similar way that it filters out banners :smile:

Hello Ajahn, pt1, Branko, all,

Bhante Dhammasiha arrived back on Sunday from visiting various Singapore, West Australian and Victorian monasteries. He asked how the Pali study was going, and when I said I wasn't learning the vocab by heart, he suggested it might be a good idea to do so. He said it would help with saddhā . It's alright for you chaps - but I just know he'll ask that again next weekend! :(
(I'm not quite sure just how it helps with saddhā ....??)

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:41 am

Hello Ajahn, all,

Lesson 5

VOCABULARY

1. Masculine nouns ending in -a

tāpasa hermit
ācariya teacher
vejja doctor
sīha lion
luddaka hunter
aja goat
vānara / makkaṭa monkey
lābha profit
mañca bed
kuddāla hoe

Verbs

rodati cries
hasati laughs
labhati gets, receives
pavisati enters
dadāti gives
ādadāti takes
kīḷati plays
nahāyati bathes
ākaḍḍhati drags
pajahati gives up, abandons

2. Declension of masculine nouns ending in -a (contd.)
Dative case:

Case endings -āya / -ssa are added to the nominal base to form the dative singular.

The case ending -ānaṃ is added to form the dative plural.

Singular:

1. nara + āya / ssa = narāya / narassa (for or to the man)
2. mātula + āya / ssa = mātulāya / mātulassa (for or to the uncle)
3. kassaka + āya / ssa = kassakāya / kassakassa (for or to the farmer)

Plural:

1. nara + ānaṃ = narānaṃ (for or to men)
2. mātula + ānaṃ = mātulānaṃ (for or to uncles)
3. kassaka + ānaṃ = kassakānaṃ (for or to farmers)

3. Examples in sentence formation

Singular:

1. Dhīvaro narāya macchaṃ āharati.
The fisherman brings a fish for the man.

2. Putto mātulassa odanaṃ dadāti.
The son gives rice to the uncle.

3. Vāṇijo kassakassa ajaṃ dadāti.
The merchant gives a goat to the farmer.

Plural:

1. Dhīvarā narānaṃ macche āharanti.
Fishermen bring fish for men.

2. Puttā mātulānaṃ odanaṃ dadanti.
Sons give rice to uncles.

3. Vāṇijā kassakānaṃ aje dadanti.
Merchants give goats to farmers.

Exercise 5:

4. Translate into English:

1. Vāṇijo rajakassa sāṭakaṃ dadāti.
2. Vejjo ācariyassa dīpaṃ āharati.
3. Migā pāsāṇamhā pabbataṃ dhāvanti.
4. Manussā Buddhehi dhammaṃ labhanti.
5. Puriso vejjāya sakaṭaṃ ākaḍḍhati.
6. Dārako hatthena yācakassa bhattaṃ āharati.
7. Yācako ācariyāya āvāṭaṃ khaṇati.
8. Rajako amaccānaṃ sāṭake dadāti.
9. Brāhmaṇo sāvakānaṃ mañce āharati.
10. Vānaro rukkhamhā patati, kukkuro vānaraṃ ḍasati.
11. Dhīvarā piṭakehi amaccānaṃ macche āharanti.
12. Kassako vāṇijāya rukkhaṃ chindati.
13. Coro kuddālena ācariyāya āvāṭaṃ khaṇati.
14. Vejjo puttānaṃ bhattaṃ pacati.
15. Tāpaso luddakena saddhiṃ bhāsati.
16. Luddako tāpasassa dīpaṃ dadāti.
17. Sīhā mige hananti.
18. Makkaṭo puttena saha rukkhaṃ āruhati.
19. Samaṇā upāsakehi odanaṃ labhanti.
20. Dārakā rodanti, kumāro hasati, mātulo kumāraṃ paharati.
21. Vānarā pabbatamhā oruhanti, rukkhe āruhanti.
22. Corā rathaṃ pavisanti, amacco rathaṃ pajahati.
23. Ācariyo dārakāya rukkhamhā sukaṃ āharati.
24. Luddako pabbatasmā ajaṃ ākaḍḍhati.
25. Tāpaso pabbatamhā sīhaṃ passati.
26. Vāṇijā kassakehi lābhaṃ labhanti.
27. Luddako vāṇijānaṃ varāhe hanati.
28. Tāpaso ācariyamhā pañhe pucchati.
29. Putto mañcamhā patati.
30. Kumārā sahāyakehi saddhiṃ nahāyanti.

5. Translate into Pāli:

1. Merchants bring horses for ministers.
2. The hunter kills a goat for the merchant.
3. The man cuts trees with a saw for the farmer.
4. Deer run away from the lion.
5. The king worships the Buddha along with lay devotees.
6. Thieves run from villages to the mountains.
7. The washerman washes garments for the king.
8. The fisherman brings fish in baskets for farmers.
9. The teacher enters the monastery, sees the monks.
10. The serpent bites the monkey.
11. Boys drag the bed for the brahmin.
12. Thieves enter the palace together with men.
13. Farmers get fish from fishermen.
14. Pigs go from the island to the mountain.
15. The king abandons the palace, the son enters the monastery.
16. The lion sleeps, the monkeys play.
17. The teacher protects his sons from the dog.
18. Hunters shoot deer with arrows for ministers.
19. Children desire rice from the uncle.
20. The doctor gives a garment to the hermit.
21. The merchant brings a goat by cart for the teacher.
22. Sons see the moon from the mountain.
23. Wise men get profit from the dhamma.
24. Monkeys leave the village.
25. The son brings a parrot for his friend from the mountain.
26. The doctor enters the monastery.
27. The jackal runs from the village to the mountain along the road.
28. The cart falls off the road, the child cries.
29. The ministers go up the stairway, the doctor comes down the stairway.
30. Wise men ask questions from the Buddha.

-ooOoo-

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Branko » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:40 pm

I have a question regarding word tāpasa = hermit
Is it kind of synonym with the word sāmana = ascetic?

:namaste:
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:02 pm

Hello Branko, all,

Entries in the Pali-English Dictionary:

Tāpasa
Tāpasa [from tapa & tapas] one who practises tapas, an ascetic (brahmin). Eight kinds are enumd at DA i.270 & SnA 295. -- J ii.101, 102; v.201; PvA 153; ˚pabbajjā the life of an a. J iii.119; DhA iv.29; DA i.270. -- f. tāpasī a female ascetic Mhvs vii.11, 12.
Tapassin (adj. -- n.) [tapas+vin; see tapati & tapa] one devoted to religious austerities, an ascetic (non -- Buddhist). Fig. one who exercises self -- control & attains mastery over his senses Vin i.234=A iv.184 (tapassī samaṇo Gotamo); D iii.40, 42 sq., 49; S i.29; iv.330, 337 sq.; M i.77; Sn 284 (isayo pubbakā āsuŋ saññatattā tapassino); Vv 2210; Pv i.32 (˚rūpa, under the appearance of a "holy" man: samaṇa -- patirūpaka PvA 15); ii.614 (=saŋvāraka PvA 98; tapo etesaŋ atthī ti ibid.).

Samaṇa
Samaṇa [BSk. śramaṇa, fr. śram, but mixed in meaning with śam] a wanderer, recluse, religieux A i.67; D iii.16, 95 sq., 130 sq.; S i.45; Dh 184; of a non -- Buddhist (tāpasa) J iii.390; an edifying etymology of the word DhA iii.84: "samita -- pāpattā s.," cp. Dh 265 "samitattā pāpānaŋ ʻ samaṇo ʼ ti pavuccati"; four grades mentioned D ii.151; M i.63; compare Sn 84 sq.; the state of a Samaṇa is attended by eight sukhas J i.7; the Buddha is often mentioned and addressed by nonBuddhists as Samaṇa: thus D i.4, 87; Sn p. 91, 99; Vin i.8 350; Samaṇas often opposed to Brāhmaṇas: thus, D i.13; It 58, 60; Sn, p. 90; Vin i.12; ii.110; samaṇabrāhmaṇā, Samaṇas and Brāhmaṇas quite generally: "leaders in religious life" (cp. Dial. ii.165) D i.5; ii.150; A i.110, -- 173 sq.; It 64; Sn 189; Vin ii.295; samaṇadhammaŋ the duties of a samaṇa A iii.371; J i.106, 107, 138; pure -- samaṇa a junior who walks before a Bhikkhu Vin ii.32; pacchāsamaṇa one who walks behind Vin i.186; ii.32; A iii.137. -- samaṇī a female recluse S i.133; ThA 18; J v.424, 427; Vin iv.235. -- assamaṇa not a true samaṇa Vin i.96.
-- uddesa a novice, a sāmaṇera D i.151; M iii.128; S v.161; Vin iv.139; A ii.78; iii.343. Cp. BSk. śramaṇoddeśa Divy 160. -- kuttaka (m.) who wears the dress of a Samaṇa Vin iii.68 sq. (=samaṇa -- vesa -- dhārako, Bdhgh ib. p. 271).
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/pali/

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Branko » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:22 pm

Many thanks Chris.

After reading both entries, I take that
1. tāpasa is a brahmin ascetic (in the fourth phase of his life, when he leaves his home) and
2. samaṇa is both Buddhist and non-Buddhist (and non-brahminic) ascetic, like jains, ajivakas etc.

Any comments?
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:30 am

Hello all,

Paali Primer
Exercise 6

Translate into English
1. Kassakassa putto vejjassa sahaayena saddhi.m aagacchati.
[of] farmer / son / [of] doctor / with friend / comes
The farmer's son comes with the doctor's friend.

2. Braahma.nassa kuddaalo hatthamhaa patati.
[of] brahmin / hoe / from hand / falls
The brahmin's hoe falls from (his) hand.

3. Migaa aavaa.tehi *nikkhamanti.
deer / [from] pits / leave
Deer leave the pits.
* See notes in Lesson 4.

4. Vaa.nijaana.m assaa kassakassa gaama.m dhaavanti.
[of] merchants / horses / [of] farmer / village / run
Merchants' horses run to the farmer's village.

5. Maatulassa mitto Tathaagatassa saavake vandati.
[of] uncle / friend / [of] Buddha / disciples / worships
The uncle's friend worships/pays respect to Buddha's disciples.

6. Amacco bhuupaalassa khaggena sappa.m paharati.
minister / [of] king / with sword / serpent / hits
The minister hits the serpent with the king's sword.

7. Vaa.nijaa gaame manussaana.m pi.takehi macche aaharanti.
merchants / to villages / for people / in baskets / fish / bring
The merchants bring fish in baskets to villages for the people.

8. Coro vejjassa saka.tena mittena saha gaamamhaa nikkhamati.
thief / [of] doctor / in cart / with friend / [from] village / leaves
The thief leaves the village with (a) friend in the doctor's cart.

9. Upaasakassa puttaa sama.nehi saha vihaara.m gacchanti.
[of] lay devotee / sons / with monks / monastery / go
The lay devotee's sons go to the monastery with the monks.

10. Yaacako amaccassa saa.taka.m icchati.
beggar / [of] minister / garment / desires
The beggar desires the minister's garment.

11. Mittaana.m maatulaa taapasaana.m odana.m dadanti.
[of] friends / uncles / to hermits / rice / give
Friends' uncles give rice to hermits/ascetics.

12. Dhiivarassa kakacena coro kukkura.m paharati.
[of] fisherman / with saw / thief / dog / strikes
The thief strikes the dog with the fisherman's saw.

13. Bhuupaalassa putto amaccassa assa.m aaruhati.
[of] king / son / [of] minister / horse / climbs
> The king's son climbs the minister's horse.
> The prince mounts the minister's horse.

14. Pa.n.ditassa puttaa Buddhassa saavakena saha vihaara.m pavisanti.
[of] wise man / sons / [of] Buddha / with disciple / monastery / enter
The wise man's sons enter the monastery with (a) disciple of the Buddha.

15. Suriyo manusse rakkhati.
sun / men / protects
The sun protects men.

16. Vejjassa sunakho aacariyassa sopaanamhaa patati.
[of] doctor / dog / [of] teacher / stairway / falls
The doctor's dog falls from the teacher's stairway.

17. Rajakaa rukkhehi oruhanti.
washermen / from trees / descend
Washermen get down from trees.

18. Yaacakassa daarakaa rodanti.
[of] beggar / children / cry
The beggar's children cry.

19. Luddakassa puttaa corassa daarakehi saddhi.m kii.lanti.
[of] hunter / sons / [of] thief / with children / play
The hunter's sons play with the thief's children.

20. Taapaso Tathaagatassa saavakaana.m odana.m dadaati.
hermit / [of] Buddha / to disciples / rice / gives
The hermit gives rice to the Buddha's disciples.

21. Sama.naa aacariyassa hatthena saa.take labhanti.
monks / [of] teacher / from hand / garments / receive
Monks receive garments from the teacher's hand.

22. Coro vaa.nijassa sahaayakasmaa assa.m yaacati.
robber / [of] merchant / friend / horse / begs
The robber begs for the horse from the merchant's friend.

23. Upaasakaa Tathaagatassa saavakehi pa~nhe pucchanti.
lay devotees / [of] Buddha / from disciples / questions / ask
Lay devotees ask questions from the Buddha's disciples.

24. Paasaa.namhaa migo patati, luddako hasati, sunakhaa dhaavanti.
from rock / deer / falls / hunter / laughs / dogs / run
The deer falls from the rock, the hunter laughs, dogs run.

25. Vejjassa patto puttassa hatthamhaa patati.
[of] doctor / bowl / [of] son / from hand / falls
The doctor's bowl falls from his son's hand.

26. Kumaaro maatulaana.m puttaana.m hatthena odana.m dadaati.
boy / [of] uncles / to sons / with hand / rice / gives
The boy gives rice to uncles' sons with hand.

27. Saraa luddakassa hatthehi patanti, migaa pabbata.m dhaavanti.
arrows / [of] hunter / from hands / fall / deer / to mountain / run
Arrows fall from the hunter's hands, deer run to the mountain.

28. Bhuupaalassa putto amaccehi saddhi.m paasaadasmaa oruhati.
[of] king / son / with ministers / from palace / descends
The king's son comes down from the palace with ministers.

29. Vejjassa so.no kassakassa suukara.m .dasati.
[of] doctor / dog / [of] farmer / dog
The doctor's dog bites the farmer's pig.

30. Dhiivaro manussaana.m macche aaharati, laabha.m labhati.
fisherman / for people / fish / brings / profit / gets
The fisherman brings fish to/for the people, (he) gets the profit.

Translate into Paali

1. The brahmin's sons bathe with the minister's son.
braahma.nassa / puttaa / nahaayanti / amaccassa / puttena saha
Braahma.nassa puttaa amaccassa puttena saha nahaayanti.

2. Uncle's friend cooks rice with the farmer's son.
maatulassa / mitto / pacati / bhatta.m / kassakassa / puttena saha
Maatulassa mitto kassakassa puttena saha bhatta.m pacati.

3. The fisherman brings fish to the king's palace.
dhiivaro / aaharati / macche / bhuupaalassa / paasaada.m
Dhiivaro macche bhuupaalassa paasaada.m aaharati.

4. The king calls the minsters' sons from the palace.
bhuupaalo / pakkosati / amaccaana.m / putte / paasaadamhaa
Bhuupaalo paasaadamhaa amaccaana.m putte pakkosati.

5. The merchant's chariot falls from the mountain.
vaa.nijassa / ratho / patati / pabbatasmaa
Vaa.nijassa ratho pabbatasmaa patati.

6. The king's ministers set out from the palace with the horses.
bhuupaalassa / amaccaa / nikkhamanti / paasaadamhaa / assehi saddhi.m
Bhuupaalassa amaccaa assehi saddhi.m paasaadamhaa nikkhamanti.

7. The brahmin's doctor gives garments to the hermits.
braahma.nassa / vejjo / dadaati / saa.take / taapasaana.m
Braahma.nassa vejjo taapasaana.m saa.take dadaati.

8. The hunter's dogs run from the mountain to the village.
luddakassa / sunakhaa / dhaavanti / pabbatasmaa / gaama.m
Luddakassa sunakhaa pabbatasmaa gaama.m dhaavanti.

9. The merchant brings a bed for the doctor's child.
vaa.nijo / aaharati / ma~nca.m / vejjassa / daarakaaya
Vaa.nijo vejjassa daarakaaya ma~nca.m aaharati.

10. Deer run from the mountain to the village.
migaa / dhaavanti / pabbatamhaa / gaama.m
Migaa pabbatamhaa gaama.m dhaavanti.

11. The teacher's child falls from the farmer's tree.
aacariyassa / daarako / patati / kassakassa / rukkhasmaa
Aacariyassa daarako kassakassa rukkhasmaa patati.

12. The dog eats fish from the fisherman's basket.
sunakho / khaadati / macche / dhiivarassa / pi.takamhaa
Sunakho dhiivarassa pi.takamhaa macche khaadati.

13. The disciples of the Buddha go from the monastery to the mountain.
saavakaa / Buddhassa / gacchanti / vihaarasmaa / pabbata.m
Buddhassa saavakaa vihaarasmaa pabbata.m gacchanti.

14. The hunter kills a pig with an arrow for the minister's friends.
luddako / hanati / varaaha.m / sarena / amaccassa / mittaana.m
Luddako amaccassa mittaana.m sarena varaaha.m hanati.

15. The child gets a lamp from the hands of the teacher.
daarako / labhati / diipa.m / hatthehi / aacariyassa
Daarako aacariyassa hatthehi diipa.m labhati.

16. The doctors' teacher calls the child's uncle.
vejjaana.m / aacariyo / pakkosati / daarakassa / maatula.m
Vejjaana.m aacariyo daarakassa maatula.m pakkosati.

17. The boy brings rice in a bowl for the monk.
kumaaro / aaharati / odana.m / pattena / sama.naaya
Kumaaro sama.naaya pattena odana.m aaharati.

18. Men go to the village of the lay devotees.
manussaa / gacchanti / gaama.m / upaasakaana.m
Manussaa upaasakaana.m gaama.m gacchanti.

19. Pigs run away from jackals.
suukaraa / dhaavanti / sigaalehi
Suukaraa sigaalehi dhaavanti.

20. Monkeys play with the deer.
vaanaraa / kii.lanti saddhi.m / migena
Vaanaraa migena saddhi.m kii.lanti.

21. The wise man comes to the king's island with the merchants.
pa.n.dito / aagacchati / bhuupaalassa / diipa.m / vaa.nijehi saha
Pa.n.dito vaa.nijehi saha bhuupaalassa diipa.m aagacchati.

22. The farmer's children go to the mountain by their uncles' chariots.
kassakassa / daarakaa / gacchanti / pabbata.m / maatulaana.m / rathehi
Kassakassa daarakaa maatulaana.m rathehi pabbata.m gacchanti.

23. Garments fall from the carts of the merchants.
saa.takaa / patanti / saka.tehi / vaa.nijaana.m
Saa.takaa vaa.nijaana.m saka.tehi patanti.

24. The recluse gets a bowl from the king's hands.
sama.no / labhati / patta.m / bhuupaalassa / hatthehi
Sama.no bhuupaalassa hatthehi patta.m labhati.

25. The washerman brings garments for the man's uncle.
rajako / aaharati / saa.take / purisassa / maatulaaya
Rajako purisassa maatulaaya saa.take aaharati.

26. King's ministers eat rice together with the teacher's friends.
bhuupaalassa / amaccaa / bhu~njanti / odana.m / aacariyassa / mittehi saha
Bhuupaalassa amaccaa aacariyassa mittehi saha odana.m bhu~njanti.

27. Wise men protect the islands of the kings from the thieves.
pa.n.ditaa / rakkhanti / diipe / bhuupaalaana.m / corehi
Pa.n.ditaa corehi bhuupaalaana.m diipe rakkhanti.

28. Boys bring baskets for the fishermen from farmers.
kumaaraa / aaharanti / pi.take / dhiivaraana.m / kassakehi
Kumaaraa kassakehi dhiivaraana.m pi.take aaharanti.

29. The farmer's horse drags the doctor's vehicle away from the road.
kassakassa / asso / aaka.d.dhati / vejjassa / ratha.m / maggamhaa
Kassakassa asso maggamhaa vejjassa ratha.m aaka.d.dhati.

30. Monks enter the village of the teacher.
sama.naa / pavisanti / gaama.m / aacariyassa
Sama.naa aacariyassa gaama.m pavisanti.

metta
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:33 pm

Hello all,

Paali Primer
Exercise 7

Translate into English
1. Braahma.no sahaayakena saddhi.m rathamhi nisiidati.
brahmin / with friend / in chariot / sits
The brahmin sits in the chariot with (a) friend.

2. Asappurisaa corehi saha gaamesu caranti.
wicked men / with thieves / in villages / walk
Wicked men move about in villages with thieves.

3. Vaa.nijo kassakassa nivaase bhatta.m pacati.
merchant / farmer's / house / rice / cook
The merchant cooks rice in the farmer's house.

4. Bhuupaalassa amaccaa diipesu manusse rakkhanti.
king's / ministers/ on islands / people / protect
The king's ministers protect people on the islands.

5. Sugatassa saavakaa vihaarasmi.m vasanti.
Buddha's / disciples / in monastery / live
The Buddha's disciples live in the monastery.

6. Makka.to rukkhamhaa aavaa.tasmi.m patati.
monkey / from tree / into pit / falls
The monkey falls from the tree into the pit.

7. Suriyassa aaloko samuddamhi patati.
sun's / light / on sea / falls
The sun's light falls on the sea.

8. Kassakaana.m go.naa gaame aahi.n.danti.
farmers' / oxen / in village / roam
Farmers' oxen roam in the village.

9. Vejjassa daarako ma~ncasmi.m sayati.
doctor's / child / on bed / sleeps
The doctor's child sleeps on the bed.

10. Dhiivaraa samuddhamhaa pi.takesu macche aaharanti.
fishermen / from sea / in baskets / fish / bring
Fishermen bring, in baskets, fish from the ocean/sea.

11. Siiho paasaa.nasmi.m .ti.t.thati, makka.taa rukkhesu caranti.
lion / on rock / stands / monkeys / on trees / move
The lion stands on the rock, monkeys move on trees.

12. Bhuupaalassa duuto amaccena saddhi.m samudda.m tarati.
king's / messenger / minister / with / sea / crosses
The king's messenger crosses the sea with (a) minister.

13. Manussaa loke jiivanti, devaa sagge vasanti.
people / in world / live / deities / in heaven / live
People live in the world, deities/gods live in the heaven.

14. Migaa pabbatesu dhaavanti, saku.naa aakaase uppatanti.
deer / in mountains / run / birds / in sky / fly
Deer run in mountains, birds fly in the sky.

15. Amacco khagga.m bhuupaalassa hatthamhaa aadadaati.
minister / sword / king's / from hand / takes
The minister takes the sword from the king's hand.

16. Aacariyo maatulassa nivaase ma~ncamhi puttena saha nisiidati.
teacher / uncle's / house / on bed / son / with / sits
The teacher sits on (a) bed in uncle's house with (his) son.

17. Taapasaa pabbatamhi viharanti.
hermits / in mountain / live
Hermits dwell/live in the mountain.

18. Upaasakaa sama.nehi saddhi.m vihaare sannipatanti.
lay devotees / monks / with / in monastery / assemble
The lay devotees assemble with the monks in the monastery.

19. Kaakaa rukkhehi uppatanti.
crows / from trees / fly
Crows fly from trees.

20. Buddho dhamma.m bhaasati, sappurisaa Buddhamhi pasiidanti*.
Buddha / dhamma / speaks / virtuous men / Buddha / are pleased with
The Buddha speaks the dhamma, good/virtuous men are pleased with the Buddha.

21. Asappuriso khaggena naavikassa duuta.m paharati.
wicked man / with sword / sailor's / messenger /strikes
The wicked man strikes the sailor's messenger with a sword.

22. Puriso sarena sakuna.m vijjhati, saku.no rukkhamhaa aavaa.tasmi.m patati.
man / with arrow / bird / shoots / bird / from tree / into pit / falls
The man shoots a bird with an arrow, the bird falls from the tree into the pit.

23. Manussaa suriyassa aalokena loka.m passanti.
men / sun's / with light / world / see
By the light of the sun, people see the world.
Lit.: Men see the world with the sun's light.

24. Kassakassa go.naa magge sayanti.
farmer's / oxen / on road / sleep
The farmer's oxen sleep on the road.

25. Go.nassa kaayasmi.m kaako ti.t.thati.
ox's / on body / crow / stands
The crow stands on the bull's body.

26. Migaa diipasmi.m paasaa.nesu nisiidanti.
deer / on island / on rocks / sit
Deer sit on the rocks on the island.

27. Saku.no naavikassa hatthamhaa aavaa.tasmi.m patati.
bird / sailor's / from hand / into pit / falls
The bird falls from the sailor's hand into the pit.

28. Sappuriso naavikena saha samuddamhaa uttarati.
virtuous man / sailor / with / from sea / comes out
The virtuous man comes out from the sea with the sailor.

29. Kuddaalo luddakassa hatthamhaa aavaa.tasmi.m patati.
hoe / hunter's / hand / into pit / falls
The hoe falls from the hunter's hand into the pit.

30. Suriyassa aalokena cando bhaasati (shines).
sun's / by light / moon / shines
The moon shines by the light of the sun.

Translate into Paali
1. The lion stands on the rock in the mountain.
siiho / ti.t.thati / paasaa.namhi / pabbatasmi.m
Siiho pabbatasmi.m paasaa.namhi ti.t.thati.

2. Thieves enter the house of the teacher.
coraa / pavisanti / nivaasa.m / aacariyassa
Coraa aacariyassa nivaasa.m pavisanti.

3. Children run from the road to the sea with friends.
daarakaa / dhaavanti / magasmaa / samudda.m / mittehi saha
Daarakaa mittehi saha maggasmaa samudda.m dhaavanti.

4. Uncle's oxen wander on the road.
maatulassa / go.naa / aahi.n.danti / maggasmi.m
Maatulassa go.naa maggasmi.m aahi.n.danti.

5. Birds sit on the tree.
saku.naa / nisiidanti / rukkhamhi
Saku.naa rukkhamhi nisiidanti.

6. The ox hits the goat with its foot.
go.no / paharati / aja.m / paadena
Go.no paadena aja.m paharati.

7. Jackals live on the mountain.
sigaalaa / vasanti / pabbatasmi.m
Sigaalaa pabbatasmi.m vasanti.

8. The king worships the feet of the Buddha with his ministers.
bhuupaalo / vandati / paade / Buddhassa / amaccehi saha
Bhuupaalo amaccehi saha Buddhassa paade vandati.

9. The uncle sleeps on the bed with his son.
maatulo / sayati / ma~ncamhi / puttena saha
Maatulo puttena saha ma~ncamhi sayati.

10. The fisherman eats rice in the house of the farmer.
dhiivaro / bhu~njati / odana.m / nivaasasmi.m / kassakassa
Dhiivaro kassakassa nivaasasmi.m odana.m bhu~njati.

11. The king's horses live in the island.
bhuupaalassa / assaa / vasanti / diipamhi
Bhuupaalassa assaa diipamhi vasanti.

12. The virtuous man brings a lamp for the hermit.
sappuriso / aaharati / diipa.m / taapasaaya
Sappuriso taapasaaya diipa.m aaharati.

13. The doctor brings a garment to the teacher's house.
vejjo / aaharati / saa.taka.m / aacariyassa / nivaasa.m
Vejjo aacariyassa nivaasa.m saa.taka.m aaharati.

14. The monkey plays with a dog on the rock.
vaanaro / kii.lati / sunakhena saddhi.m / paasaa.nasmi.m
Vaanaro sunakhena saddhi.m paasaa.nasmi.m kii.lati.

15. The garment falls on the farmer's body.
saa.tako / patati / kassakassa / kaayamhi
Saa.tako kassakassa kaayamhi patati.

16. The hunter carries arrows in a basket.
luddako / harati / sare / pi.takasmi.m**
Luddako pi.takasmi.m sare harati.

17. Disciples of the Buddha assemble in the monastery.
saavakaa / Buddhassa / sannipatanti / vihaarasmi.m
Buddhassa saavakaa vihaarasmi.m sannipatanti.

18. The washerman washes the garments of the ministers.
rajako / dhovati / saa.take / amaccaana.m
Rajako amaccaana.m saa.take dhovati.

19. Birds fly in the sky.
saku.naa / uppatanti / aakaasamhi
Saku.naa aakaasamhi uppatanti.

20. The virtuous man comes out of the sea together with the sailor.
sappuriso / uttarati / samuddamhaa / naavikena saha
Sappuriso naavikena saha samuddamhaa uttarati.

21. Deities are pleased with the Buddha's disciples.
devaa / pasiidanti / Buddhassa / saavakesu
Devaa Buddhassa saavakesu pasiidanti.

22. Merchants cross the sea together with sailors.
vaa.nijaa / taranti / samudda.m / naavikehi saha
Vaa.nijaa naavikehi saha samudda.m taranti.

23. The good man protects the dog from the serpent.
sappuriso / rakkhati / kukkura.m / sappamhaa
Sappuriso sappamhaa kukkura.m rakkhati.

24. Crows fly from trees in the mountain.
kaakaa / uppatanti / rukkehi / pabbatasmi.m
Kaakaa pabbatasmi.m rukkehi uppatanti.

25. The pig pulls a fish from the fisherman's basket.
suukaro / aaka.d.dhati / maccha.m / dhiivarassa / pi.takasmaa
Suukaro dhiivarassa pi.takasmaa maccha.m aaka.d.dhati.

26. The light of the sun falls on the men in the world.
aaloko / suriyassa / patati / manussesu / lokamhi
Suriyassa aaloko lokamhi manussesu patati.

27. Deities go through the sky.
devaa / gacchanti / aakaasena
Devaa aakaasena gacchanti.

28. Children play with the dog on the road.
daarakaa / kii.lanti / kukkurena saddhi.m / maggasmi.m
Daarakaa kukkurena saddhi.m maggasmi.m kii.lanti.

29. The wicked man drags a monkey from the tree.
asappuriso / aaka.d.dhati / makka.ta.m / rukkhamhaa
Asappuriso rukkhamhaa makka.ta.m aaka.d.dhati.

30. The king's messenger gets down from the horse.
bhuupaalassa / duuto / oruhati / assasmaa
Bhuupaalassa duuto assasmaa oruhati.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:

* pasiidati always refer to a word in the locative case.

** Since this chapter introduces the locative case, pi.takasmi.m is used. However, the sentence can also be understood as "The hunter carries arrows using a basket", in which the instrumental case prevails. Then the Pali will be "Luddako pi.takena sare harati". For more examples, please see Exercise 3 (Translate into Pali/17), 4 (Translate into English/1) and 5 (Translate into English/11, Translate into Pali/8).

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:06 pm

De Silva: * pasiidati always refers to a word in the locative case.


Except when it doesn't. :lol:

In fact in the Kaccāyana grammar pasīdati is cited as an example of a verb whose object may take either the tatiyā ("instrumental") or the sattamī ("locative"):

    maṇḍitu’ ssukkesu tatiyā.

    maṇḍitaussukka iccetesvatthesu tatiyāvibhatti hoti, sattamī ca.

    ñāṇena pasīdito, ñāṇasmiṃ vā pasīdito,
    ñāṇena ussukko, ñāṇasmiṃ vā ussukko,
    tathāgato vā tathāgatagotto vā.
    (Kacc. aphorism #315)
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Pali Primer Study Group (Lily de Silva)

Postby cooran » Mon May 04, 2009 6:15 am

Hello all,

Paali Primer
Exercise 8
Translate into English
1. Upaasako pupphaani aaharati.
lay devotee / flowers / brings
The lay devotee brings flowers.

2. Ara~n~ne migaa vasanti, rukkhesu makka.taa caranti.
in forest / deer / live / on trees / monkeys / move
Deer live in the forest, monkeys move on the trees.

3. Go.naa ti.na.m khaadanti.
oxen / grass / eat
Oxen eat grass.

4. Manussaa nayanehi passanti.
men / with eyes / see
Men see with eyes.

5. Sama.no vihaarasmi.m aasane nisiidati.
monk / in monastery / on seat / sits
The monk sits on (a) seat in the monastery.

6. Rukkhamhaa pa.n.naani patanti.
from tree / leaves / fall
Leaves fall from the tree.

7. Vaa.nijaa gaamamhaa khiira.m nagara.m haranti.
merchants / from village / milk / city / take
Merchants take milk from the village to the city.

8. Bhuupaalo kumaarena saddhi.m uyyaane carati.
king / with boy / in park / walks
The king walks in the park with the boy.

9. Kassako khettamhi kuddaalena aavaa.te kha.nati.
farmer / in field / with hoe / pits / digs
The farmer digs pits in the field with (a) hoe.

10. Maatulo puttassa bha.n.daani dadaati.
uncle / to son (dat.) / goods / gives
The uncle gives goods to the son.
uncle / son's (gen.) / goods / gives
The uncle gives the son's goods.

11. Upaasakaa sama.naana.m daana.m dadanti, siilaani rakkhanti.
lay devotees / to monks / alms / give / virtue / protect
Lay devotees give alms to monks, protect virtue.
Alt: Lay devotees give alms to monks, observe morality.

12. Daarakaa mittehi saddhi.m udakasmi.m kii.lanti.
children / with friends / in water / play
Children play with friends in the water.

13. Kassakaa vaa.nijehi vatthaani labhanti.
farmers / from merchants / cloths / get
Farmers get cloths from merchants.

14. Kumaaro uyyaanamhaa maatulassa kusumaani aaharati.
boy / from park / for uncle / flowers / brings
The boy brings flowers from the park for the uncle.

15. Braahma.nassa ajaa go.nehi saha vane aahi.n.danti, ti.naani khaadanti.
brahmin's / goats / with oxen / in forest / wander / grass / eat
The brahmin's goats wander in the forest with oxen, (they) eat grass.

16. Siiho vanasmi.m rukkhamuule (at the foot of a tree) nisiidati.
lion / in forest / at foot of a tree / sits
The lion sits at the foot of a tree in the forest.

17. Rajakaa udakena aasanaani dhovanti.
washermen / with water / seats / wash
Washermen wash the seats with water.

18. Amacco duutena saddhi.m rathena araᱡ?m pavisati.
minister / with messenger / in chariot / forest / enters
The minister enters the forest in a chariot with (his) messenger.

19. Yaacakassa putto udakena pa.n.naani dhovati.
beggar's / son / with water / leaves / washes
The beggar's son washes leaves using water.

20. Vaa.nijaa bha.n.daani nagaramhaa gaama.m aaharanti.
merchants / goods / from city / [to] village / bring
Merchants bring goods from the city to the village.

21. Tathaagatassa saavakaa asappurisaana.m putte anusaasanti.
Buddha's / disciples / wicked men's / sons / advise
The Buddha's disciples advise the wicked men's sons.

22. Upaasakaa udakena pupphaani aasi~ncanti.
lay devotees / with water / flowers / sprinkle
The lay devotees sprinkle flowers with water.

23. Kumaaro patta.m bhindati; maatulo akkosati.
boy / bowl / breaks / uncle / scolds
The boy breaks a bowl, the uncle scolds him.

24. Luddakassa putto migassa kaaya.m hatthena phusati.
hunter's / son / deer's / body / with hand / touches
The hunter's son touches the deer's body with (his) hand.

25. Go.no khette paasaa.namhaa u.t.thahati.
ox / in field / from rock / gets up
The ox gets up from the rock in the field.

26. Rajakassa putto saa.take ma~ncasmi.m nikkhipati.
washerman's / son / garments / on bed / puts
The washerman's son puts garments on the bed.

27. Sugatassa saavako vihaarassa dvaara.m vivarati.
Buddha's / disciple / monastery's / door / opens
The Buddha's disciple opens the door of the monastery.

28. Vejjassa daarakaa gehe naccanti.
doctor's / children / in house / dance
The doctor's children dance in the house.

29. Pa.n.dito asappurisa.m ovadati.
wise man / wicked man / admonishes
The wise man admonishes the wicked man.

30. Coro aacariyassa saka.ta.m pabbatasmi.m pajahati.
thief / teacher's / cart / in mountain / abandons
The thief abandons the teacher's cart in the mountain.

Translate into Paali
1. Children play in the water with the dog.
Daarakaa / kii.lanti / udakasmi.m / sunakhena saddhi.m
Daarakaa sunakhena saddhi.m udakasmi.m kii.lanti.

2. The wicked man breaks leaves from the tree.
asappuriso / chindati / pa.n.naani / rukkhasmaa
Asappuriso rukkhasmaa pa.n.naani chindati.

3. Kings go in vehicles to the park with their ministers.
bhuupaalaa / gacchanti / rathehi / uyyaana.m / amaccehi saha
Bhuupaalaa amaccehi saha rathehi uyyaana.m gacchanti.

4. Merchants set out from the city with goods.
Vaa.nijaa bha.n.daani aadaaya nagaramhaa nikkhamanti.
[Lit. Having taken the goods, merchants set out from the city.]
See next lesson.

5. Virtuous men give alms to monks.
sappurisaa / dadanti / daana.m / sama.naana.m
Sappurisaa sama.naana.m daana.m dadanti.

6. Disciples of the Buddha assemble in the park with lay devotees.
saavakaa / Buddhassa / sannipatanti / uyyaane / upaasakehi saha
Buddhassa saavakaa upaasakehi saha uyyaane sannipatanti.

7. The thief gets down from the tree in the forest.
coro / oruhati / rukkhasmaa / araᱡ?mi.m
Coro rukkhasmaa araᱡ?mi.m oruhati.

8. Wicked men hit the monkeys on the trees with stones.
asappurisaa / paharanti / vaanare / rukkhesu / paasaa.nehi
Asappurisaa paasaa.nehi rukkhesu vaanare paharanti.

9. The doctor's horse eats grass with the ox on the road.
vejjassa / asso / khaadati / ti.na.m / go.nena saddhi.m / maggamhi
Vejjassa asso go.nena saddhi.m maggamhi ti.na.m khaadati.

10. Jackals live in forests, dogs live in villages.
sigaalaa / vasanti / araᱥ?u / kukkuraa / vasanti / gaamesu
Sigaalaa araᱥ?u vasanti, kukkuraa gaamesu vasanti.

11. Brahmins sit on seats in the house of the wise man.
braahma.naa / nisiidanti / aasanesu / gehe / pa.n.ditassa
Braahma.naa pa.n.ditassa gehe aasanesu nisiidanti.

12. The sailor opens the doors of his house.
naaviko / vivarati / dvaare / gehassa
Naaviko gehassa dvaare vivarati.

13. The sons of fishermen dance with friends in the park.
puttaa / dhiivaraana.m / naccanti / mittehi saha / uyyaanasmi.m
Dhiivaraana.m puttaa mittehi saha uyyaanasmi.m naccanti.

14. The merchant puts fish in baskets.
vaa.nijo / nikkhipati / macche / pi.takesu
Vaa.nijo pi.takesu macche nikkhipati.

15. The world gets light from the sun.
loko / labhati / aaloka.m / suriyamhaa
Loko suriyamhaa aaloka.m labhati.

16. Sailors get up from their seats.
naavikaa / u.t.thahanti / aasanehi
Naavikaa aasanehi u.t.thahanti.

17. The doctor's friend touches the body of the dog with his foot.
vejjassa / mitto / phusati / kaaya.m / sunakhassa / paadena
Vejjassa mitto paadena sunakhassa kaaya.m phusati.

18. The Buddha instructs his disciples in the monastery.
Buddho / anusaasati / saavake / vihaaramhi
Buddho vihaaramhi saavake anusaasati.

19. Boys collect flowers from the park, lay devotees sprinkle them with water.
kumaaraa / sa.mharanti / pupphaani / uyyaanasmaa / upaasakaa / aasiᣡ?ti / udakena
Kumaaraa uyyaanasmaa pupphaani sa.mharanti, upaasakaa udakena aasiᣡ?ti.

20. The parrot flies into the sky from the house of the sailor.
suko / uppatati / aakaasa.m / gehamhaa / naavikassa
Suko naavikassa gehamhaa aakaasa.m uppatati.

21. The thief cuts a tree with a saw, the farmer scolds (him).
coro / chindati / rukkha.m / kakacena / kassakp / akkosati
Coro kakacena rukkha.m chindati, kassako akkosati.

22. The wise man advises the merchant, the merchant is pleased with the wise man.
pa.n.dito / ovadati / vaa.nija.m / vaa.nijo / pasiidati / pa.n.ditasmi.m
Pa.n.dito vaa.nija.m ovadati, vaa.nijo pa.n.ditasmi.m pasiidati.

23. The king's messenger comes out of the sea with the sailor.
bhuupaalassa / duuto / uttarati / samuddamhaa / naavikena saha
Bhuupaalassa duuto naavikena saha samuddamhaa uttarati.

24. Merchants bring clothes for farmers from the city.
vaa.nijaa / aaharanti / vatthaani / kassakaana.m / nagarasmaa
Vaa.nijaa kassakaana.m nagarasmaa vatthaani aaharanti.

25. Gods protect virtuous men. Good men protect virtues.
devaa / rakkhanti / sappurise / sappurisaa / rakkhanti / siilaani
Devaa sappurise rakkhanti. Sappurisaa siilaani rakkhanti.

26. Men see objects with their eyes with (the help of) the light of the sun.
manussaa / passanti / ruupaani / locanehi / aalokena / suriyassa
Manussaa locanehi suriyassa aalokena ruupaani passanti.

27. Leaves from the trees fall on the road.
pa.n.naani / rukkhehi / patanti / maggamhi
Pa.n.naani rukkhehi maggamhi patanti.

28. Lay devotees place flowers on altars (pupphaasana).
upaasakaa / pakkhipanti / pupphaani / pupphaasanesu
Upaasakaa pupphaasanesu pupphaani pakkhipanti*.

29. Goats drink water from pits in the field.
ajaa / pibanti / udaka.m / aavaa.tehi / khette
Ajaa khette aavaa.tehi udaka.m pibanti.

30. The lions get up from the rock at the foot of the tree (rukkhamuula).
siihaa / u.t.thahanti / paasaa.namhaa / rukkhamuulami.m
Siihaa rukkhamuulasmi.m paasaa.namhaa u.t.thahanti.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:

* See Lesson 18 (All in good time :tongue: )

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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