Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

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Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby David2 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:50 pm

Hi everyone,

for blind people, there is no eye-contact with pictures or movies that could cause craving and for deaf people, there is no ear-contact with sounds that could cause craving, right?

So, is it easier for those blind and deaf people to overcome cravings?

If the answer is "yes", it would be helpful to make ourselves blind and deaf, wouldn't it?

So does the answer have to be "no" because nobody teaches us to make ourselves blind and deaf? But why?
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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby Virgo » Mon May 16, 2011 7:17 pm

Though blind individuals don't have stimulus through the eye door which can be cause of craving, and though deaf people have none through the ear door, the fact remains that is is panna, insight, that eliminates craving through seeing the truth of things. Therefore, it has to do with the level of developed panna, and not how many sense faculties are in order.

There have been many blind and deaf persons, probably some though not many have attained seeing through Dhamma.

There have been many persons with all senses in tact who have attained to the Dhamma, through wisdom, seeing, insight, the keen aspect of mind that sees with wisdom. So we can see that it is about the degree of wisdom, not the "advantage" of having less sense-contacts. Without the level of wisdom, understanding, it does not matter if you have less sense-contacts at all.

All the best to you,

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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby bodom » Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

From Ajahn Chah:

If we think that peace lies where there are no sensations would wisdom arise? Would there be causal and resultant conditions? Would we have anything to practice with? If we blame the sounds, then where there are sounds we can't be peaceful. We think that place is no good. Wherever there are sights we say that's not peaceful. If that's the case then to find peace we'd have to be one whose senses have all died, blind, and deaf. I thought about this....

''Hmm. This is strange. Suffering arises because of eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind. So should we be blind? If we didn't see anything at all maybe that would be better. One would have no defilement's arising if one were blind, or deaf. Is this the way it is?''...

But, thinking about it, it was all wrong. If that was the case then blind and deaf people would be enlightened. They would all be accomplished if defilements arose at the eyes and ears. There are the causal conditions. Where things arise, at the cause, that's where we must stop them. Where the cause arises, that's where we must contemplate.

Actually, the sense bases of the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind are all things which can facilitate the arising of wisdom, if we know them as they are. If we don't really know them we must deny them, saying we don't want to see sights, hear sounds, and so on, because they disturb us. If we cut off the causal conditions what are we going to contemplate? Think about it. Where would there be any cause and effect? This is wrong thinking on our part.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... html#sense

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby David2 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:36 pm

Thank you Virgo and bodom,

that helped a lot.
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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:58 pm

This issue is addressed in the Indriya-bhavana Sutta, The Development of the Faculties, MN 152
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him: "Uttara, does the brahman Parasiri teach his followers the development of the faculties?"

"Yes, master Gotama, he does."

"And how does he teach his followers the development of the faculties?"

"There is the case where one does not see forms with the eye, or hear sounds with the ear [in a trance of non-perception]. That's how the brahman Parasiri teaches his followers the development of the faculties."

"That being the case, Uttara, then a blind person will have developed faculties, and a deaf person will have developed faculties, according to the words of the brahman Parasiri. For a blind person does not see forms with the eye, and a deaf person does not hear sounds with the ear."

The Blessed One said: "Now how, Ananda, in the discipline of a noble one is there the unexcelled development of the faculties? There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable & disagreeable. He discerns that 'This agreeable thing has arisen in me, this disagreeable thing... this agreeable & disagreeable thing has arisen in me. And that is compounded, gross, dependently co-arisen. But this is peaceful, this is exquisite, i.e., equanimity.' With that, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance. Just as a man with good eyes, having closed them, might open them; or having opened them, might close them, that is how quickly, how rapidly, how easily, no matter what it refers to, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance. In the discipline of a noble one, this is called the unexcelled development of the faculties with regard to forms cognizable by the eye.
...
[and so on for the other senses]

:anjali:
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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby beeblebrox » Mon May 16, 2011 10:22 pm

David2 wrote:Hi everyone,

for blind people, there is no eye-contact with pictures or movies that could cause craving and for deaf people, there is no ear-contact with sounds that could cause craving, right?

So, is it easier for those blind and deaf people to overcome cravings?

If the answer is "yes", it would be helpful to make ourselves blind and deaf, wouldn't it?

So does the answer have to be "no" because nobody teaches us to make ourselves blind and deaf? But why?


I've been deaf since I was 2. It definitely doesn't make it any easier. Some people tell me that I'm lucky because I have less distraction... that's just not true. There are still thoughts, sign language, dealing with people (which is more challenging if they're not deaf), etc.

I can say this though: most of the people that I know who were born deaf, or became deaf at very early age, usually are not interested in hearing again. It's usually because they don't feel disabled. They like their culture: its history, the closeness of deaf community, the beauty of sign language. They want to continue this. The people who become deaf in later life, they usually want to hear again. (They seem to really, really hate it when they can't hear.)

If the former feel like that their culture is marginalized in any way... they will fight back, that's for sure. Some will do this poorly, i.e., become angry, but there are still others who are able to keep it in perspective. It's just the same as if you were a hearing person, and if someone disrespects you for who you are... you either deal with that well, or you don't. We still have the same problems, and we still deal with it, all the same.

:anjali:
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Re: Is it easier for blind/deaf people to abandon cravings?

Postby icyteru » Sun May 22, 2011 1:52 am

blind / deaf people also difficult to learn dhamma

if you want to blind / deaf, practice samadhi / bhavana. in some point, you become blind / deaf. but after you're awake of course 5 senses back to normal.
The most complete english tipitaka on the internet world. http://realtruthlife.blogspot.com .
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