What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri May 20, 2011 1:45 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


LastLegend
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby LastLegend » Fri May 20, 2011 3:14 pm

Last edited by LastLegend on Fri May 20, 2011 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 20, 2011 3:19 pm


LastLegend
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby LastLegend » Fri May 20, 2011 3:20 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 20, 2011 3:27 pm


Kenshou
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Kenshou » Fri May 20, 2011 3:55 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby beeblebrox » Fri May 20, 2011 4:09 pm

Just for convenience:

Sakkaya ditthi = identity view, one of the 10 fetters. It's an attempt to view a "self" as compared to the five aggregates, in the following ways: identical with them (form is self, consciousness is self, etc.); contained within them (self is found in form, self is found in consciousness, etc.); independent from them (self is beyond the form, self is beyond the consciousness, etc.); or owner of them (self owns the form, self owns the consciousness, etc).

I think that if the Dhamma is to be understood, and practiced to its fullest (all the way to liberation), the idea of "self" needs to be taken out of the equation completely, including the idea of "no self." It's really irrelevant to the practice (apart from conventional usage), and is a fetter.

:anjali:

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daverupa
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby daverupa » Fri May 20, 2011 8:31 pm


Kenshou
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Kenshou » Fri May 20, 2011 8:46 pm

I think this is like the raft simile. We use the concept of anatta to get us where we want to go, but after it's done it's job it doesn't need to be held onto anymore. I can't remember where but I believe it's said that the arahant doesn't cling to even such concepts as "viraga" or "nibbana". Of course for the majority of us this isn't something we need to worry about right now. And I'd figure that "releasing the raft" happens automatically anyway at the right time, but whatever.

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beeblebrox
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby beeblebrox » Fri May 20, 2011 8:47 pm


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ground
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ground » Sat May 21, 2011 6:48 am


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ground
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ground » Sat May 21, 2011 7:03 am

Now if anything then this emptiness of "self" actually meaning emptiness of "I" and "mine" may be called "Buddha nature".

But then ... why introduce a new term if there is already a more specific one?

The reason is that "Buddha nature" can be applied to mean "more than" the "mere lack of", the mere emptiness ... it can be applied to imply pre-existing positive, i.e. affirmed, qualities.

And this is the reason why even among Mahayanists the term "Buddha nature" has been revealed by some to be "a means" for those inclined to soul theories. Now if this "means" may be called "skillful" or not is a point of dissent even among Mahayanists.


Kind regards

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beeblebrox
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby beeblebrox » Sat May 21, 2011 4:07 pm


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ancientbuddhism
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ancientbuddhism » Sat May 21, 2011 6:12 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


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beeblebrox
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby beeblebrox » Sat May 21, 2011 7:01 pm

When you say "not self," what idea are you using? What are you comparing it against? Once this idea is taken out of the equation... there is only the arising and falling away.

That is not the end, though. We still have to use this "insight" as something to end the suffering, for once.

:anjali:

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ancientbuddhism » Sun May 22, 2011 2:42 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


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kirk5a
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby kirk5a » Sun May 22, 2011 2:50 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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acinteyyo
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby acinteyyo » Sun May 22, 2011 3:36 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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ground
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ground » Sun May 22, 2011 4:41 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby beeblebrox » Sun May 22, 2011 7:37 pm



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