Conversations with devas

[clw_uk]

Just read Ajahn Muns Bio, seems he had a very interesting life full of visions, insight and adventure


I did read one point

There were
also some arahant disciples who visited him, exchanging complimentary greetings.
Occasionally they showed him the manner of their passing away. These included those
who passed away within that cave and others who had passed away elsewhere. They
always gave him explanations with their demonstrations. The salient points of their visits
will be related below and the writer begs the forgiveness of the readers for any
deficiencies, which there certainly must be.

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... Master.pdf

Very interesting passage, has there been other cases of people speaking to Arahants (after parinibbana)?


Metta

[Ngawang Drolma.]

There are many accounts of people encountering pretas. This is also met with skepticism, although less so than encounters with devas. It seems easy to believe that pretas linger and make themselves known in order for us to be able to help them somehow. People seem to have a hard time believing devas are sometimes in need of the same. This post from ANOTHER THREAD is relevant.

Dear Seer,

I've read your posts and I'm pretty sure you're the same SeerObserver with whom I talked about this in chat a little. I find your comments really interesting, and I hope you keep sharing.

[gavesako]

There is a tradition in Ch'an Buddhism in particular of the 16 Arahats who are believed to continue their existence in this world in order to protect the Buddhist religion. One can contact them through meditation, especially the Arahat Pindola (who is also known in the Pali Suttas). Many people seem to have visions (nimitta) of Buddhas and arahants in meditation, and it is not surprising that such an idea should come about. However, Ajahn Mun simply related his experience as it was, he did learn some lesson from it, and that was it. Other people have repreated it and interpreted it, and made a metaphysical statement about the "real existence" of those arahants from it.

[SeerObserver]

There are many accounts of people encountering pretas. This is also met with skepticism, although less so than encounters with devas. It seems easy to believe that pretas linger and make themselves known in order for us to be able to help them somehow. People seem to have a hard time believing devas are sometimes in need of the same. This post from ANOTHER THREAD is relevant.

Dear Seer,

I've read your posts and I'm pretty sure you're the same SeerObserver with whom I talked about this in chat a little. I find your comments really interesting, and I hope you keep sharing.

Thank you. Always glad to make a contribution. We're all in this together.

[nathan]

Many people seem to have visions (nimitta) of Buddhas and arahants in meditation, and it is not surprising that such an idea should come about. However, Ajahn Mun simply related his experience as it was, he did learn some lesson from it, and that was it. Other people have repreated it and interpreted it, and made a metaphysical statement about the "real existence" of those arahants from it.

This is good advice. One can make a useful and important distinction about what is one's existential experience, one's existential realizations and what is one's conceptualizations. For most of us communication skills lag behind this and so I apologize if my take on this kind of phenomena presented in terms considered mythical or mentally ill but engaging in that discussion is like trying to prove you aren't a nazi. Try it. Trying to modernize what may appear to many as an archaic form of traditional acceptance because it doesn't conform with modern conventions of sanity is not my problem. My experience is mine to debug and I'm on it so I am not out to prove anything to anyone about my conditionality, consider me nobody special at all.

I'm not going to try to change my explanation of my experience from spooky to scientifically truthy because people are more comfortable with that because it isn't a better fit anyways. No one benefits from invalidating anyone elses actual experience within whatever conditions those are, sane or not. I accept skepticism, cynicism and a lot of tolerance of it because I think those with faith and various kinds of experience are also tolerated. I think actually seeing a diva demonstrates why even then liberation is superior and brings divas 'down to earth' a bit as opposed to elevating one's estimation of that condition. Again as to space time, I think this is underestimating the Buddha's awareness. The Buddha spoke of the next Buddha as well and if I recall correctly in very remote future terms. Space time is not what most worldly humans think it is. It exists as gravity does and it can be relativistically overcome as gravity can be. Western science hasn't developed an application in it's limited terms but to suggest that the mind has such limitations is the same kind of bondage within one's body and mind as comes from failing to address that aspect of being directly. If the mind isn't 'mine' in the first place then it doesn't have the limits of being 'my' mind at all does it?

Have a nice day.