Hmm, a no-live-teachers-approach then?
Mike
Goenka technique
- retrofuturist
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Re: Goenka technique
Greetings Mike,
I would consider anyone who had an interest in my spiritual well-being as a kalayana-mitta, whether they be dead or alive, in meat-space or cyber-space.
Accordingly, I could quite happily learn from Mr. Goenka, mikenz66, Ajahn Brahm, Jack Kornfield, Ben, Ñāṇa, Buddhaghosa, Sylvester, Ajahn Chah, Mahasi Sayadaw, one of Mr. Goenka's ATs or Tiltbillings at any point in time.... but my root instruction will always be the Buddha's doctrine.
Metta,
Retro.
That depends on whether you regard kalayana-mittas as teachers, I guess. As Ajahn Chah said, "everything is teaching us".mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, a no-live-teachers-approach then?
I would consider anyone who had an interest in my spiritual well-being as a kalayana-mitta, whether they be dead or alive, in meat-space or cyber-space.
Accordingly, I could quite happily learn from Mr. Goenka, mikenz66, Ajahn Brahm, Jack Kornfield, Ben, Ñāṇa, Buddhaghosa, Sylvester, Ajahn Chah, Mahasi Sayadaw, one of Mr. Goenka's ATs or Tiltbillings at any point in time.... but my root instruction will always be the Buddha's doctrine.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Goenka technique
I thought/read somewhere you could become awakened without even knowing about Buddhism (but knowing just helped expedite). Is this wrong view? Don't by shy. I am getting comfortable, finally, with confronting my wrong views--usually.
Re: Goenka technique
Ajahn Chah did say that... however Ajahn Chah's main teacher was Ajahn Mun. Ajahn Chah in turn had scores of students to whom he was the teacher. Including Ajahn Brahm and Jack Kornfield.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Mike,
That depends on whether you regard kalayana-mittas as teachers, I guess. As Ajahn Chah said, "everything is teaching us".mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, a no-live-teachers-approach then?
I would consider anyone who had an interest in my spiritual well-being as a kalayana-mitta, whether they be dead or alive, in meat-space or cyber-space.
Accordingly, I could quite happily learn from Mr. Goenka, mikenz66, Ajahn Brahm, Jack Kornfield, Ben, Ñāṇa, Buddhaghosa, Sylvester, Ajahn Chah, Mahasi Sayadaw, one of Mr. Goenka's ATs or Tiltbillings at any point in time.... but my root instruction will always be the Buddha's doctrine.
Metta,
Retro.
Last edited by PeterB on Fri May 27, 2011 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
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Re: Goenka technique
Greetings danieLion,
(though perhaps questions of this ilk ought to be explored in separate topics?)
Metta,
Retro.
The Buddha could not envisage any path to enlightenment which was devoid of the Four Noble Truths.danieLion wrote:I thought/read somewhere you could become awakened without even knowing about Buddhism (but knowing just helped expedite). Is this wrong view? Don't by shy. I am getting comfortable, finally, with confronting my wrong views--usually.
(though perhaps questions of this ilk ought to be explored in separate topics?)
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Goenka technique
I certainly think it would be a good idea if input into this thread which is primarily about the Goenka approach was largely from either inquirers, or from people with extensive experience of same.
Re: Goenka technique
oh. i'm interrupting. sorry. for instance threads on the Buddha as ultimate teacher/suttanta approach and/or one on something on the possibility of "solo" awakening and/or if it is possible to know the Four Truths solo?retrofuturist wrote:Greetings danieLion,
The Buddha could not envisage any path to enlightenment which was devoid of the Four Noble Truths.danieLion wrote:I thought/read somewhere you could become awakened without even knowing about Buddhism (but knowing just helped expedite). Is this wrong view? Don't by shy. I am getting comfortable, finally, with confronting my wrong views--usually.
(though perhaps questions of this ilk ought to be explored in separate topics?)
Metta,
Retro.
until tomorrow, good night
Re: Goenka technique
I think the fact that the Buddha bequeathed THREE jewels danieLion Buddha Dhamma AND Sangha should be seen as pretty conclusive.
And I dont think he envisaged Sangha as sending messages to others merely. Or in setting up of another institution. Or a heirachy.
He meant the whole gamut of interraction, the sharing of space and mingling of breath.
The gross and the subtle.
In the profundity of his wisdom he knew that there was a whole area of our functioning which had to be in gear with the whole, that area in which we are social beings. Even though that social functioning had to be enhanced from time to time in withdrawing from it...in retreat.
And I dont think he envisaged Sangha as sending messages to others merely. Or in setting up of another institution. Or a heirachy.
He meant the whole gamut of interraction, the sharing of space and mingling of breath.
The gross and the subtle.
In the profundity of his wisdom he knew that there was a whole area of our functioning which had to be in gear with the whole, that area in which we are social beings. Even though that social functioning had to be enhanced from time to time in withdrawing from it...in retreat.
Re: Goenka technique
By Ajahn Chah's own account in Food for the Heart, and from his disciple Paul Breiter, he only stayed with Ajahn Mun for 3 days.PeterB wrote: however Ajahn Chah's main teacher was Ajahn Mun. Ajahn Chah in turn had scores of students to whom he was the teacher. Including Ajahn Brahm and Jack Kornfield.
http://wanderingdhamma.wordpress.com/20 ... -teaching/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;In Everything Arises, Everything Falls Away, Paul Breiter discusses the relationship between Ajahn Chah and Ajahn Mun. “Ajahn Chah spent only a few days with him but afterward always spoke of himself as a disciple of Ajahn Mun, saying, ‘If a person with good eyes stands close to something, he sees it. If his eyes are bad, it doesn’t matter how long he’s there.’
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Goenka technique
Possibly, by not knowing Buddhism by name, but having rediscovered what is essential.danieLion wrote:I thought/read somewhere you could become awakened without even knowing about Buddhism (but knowing just helped expedite). Is this wrong view? Don't by shy. I am getting comfortable, finally, with confronting my wrong views--usually.
An American born Buddhist monk, Thanisaro Bhikku, published a book called "Wings To Awakening". You can find a free copy by Googling. The theme of the book is that the Buddha knew that his teachings would eventually get distorted and die out. The Buddha made several lists describing qualities a person could develop. The most famous of these lists is The 8 Fold Path. His theory was that if a person worked to develop all of the qualities on any of those lists the quest would eventually force them to rediscover and relearn his teachings.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Goenka technique
Its not about duration is it ?bodom wrote:By Ajahn Chah's own account in Food for the Heart, and from his disciple Paul Breiter, he only stayed with Ajahn Mun for 3 days.PeterB wrote: however Ajahn Chah's main teacher was Ajahn Mun. Ajahn Chah in turn had scores of students to whom he was the teacher. Including Ajahn Brahm and Jack Kornfield.
http://wanderingdhamma.wordpress.com/20 ... -teaching/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;In Everything Arises, Everything Falls Away, Paul Breiter discusses the relationship between Ajahn Chah and Ajahn Mun. “Ajahn Chah spent only a few days with him but afterward always spoke of himself as a disciple of Ajahn Mun, saying, ‘If a person with good eyes stands close to something, he sees it. If his eyes are bad, it doesn’t matter how long he’s there.’
Ajahn Chah may have stayed with Ajahn Mun for a few days , but decades later was till talking about him constantly and referring to him as his teacher.
No Ajhn Chan I. but decades after meeting with him on three occasions I still talk about him constantly.
Its not just about data or that which is able to be rendered in verbal form. There are those whose every breath , movement, and casual word is a teaching.
Without wanting to put too fine a point on it, there is a difference between a teacher and an instructor. I for one am guilty of being imprecise in the use of those terms.
We may not all have the good fortune to meet a teacher, but instruction is widely available.
All it really needs is someone who knows more than us and whose knowledge is sound.
Re: Goenka technique
PeterB wrote:I think the fact that the Buddha bequeathed THREE jewels danieLion Buddha Dhamma AND Sangha should be seen as pretty conclusive.
And I dont think he envisaged Sangha as sending messages to others merely. Or in setting up of another institution. Or a heirachy.
He meant the whole gamut of interraction, the sharing of space and mingling of breath.
The gross and the subtle.
In the profundity of his wisdom he knew that there was a whole area of our functioning which had to be in gear with the whole, that area in which we are social beings. Even though that social functioning had to be enhanced from time to time in withdrawing from it...in retreat.
kind regards"With regard to external factors, I don't envision any other single factor like friendship with admirable people as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the heart's goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who is a friend with admirable people abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful."
— Iti 17
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Goenka technique
Thats right peter I agree, that was my point.PeterB wrote:Its not about duration is it ?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Goenka technique
And I was agreeing with you Bodom... It would appear that we agree....
Re: Goenka technique
PeterB wrote:And I was agreeing with you Bodom... It would appear that we agree....
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB