Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

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Dhammabodhi
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Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby Dhammabodhi » Mon May 30, 2011 1:21 pm

Hello,

I quote the translation from http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html:

"Monks, there are these nine step-by-step stoppings. Which nine?

"When one has attained the first jhāna, the perception of sensuality has been stopped. When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thoughts & evaluations [verbal fabrications] have been stopped. When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has been stopped. When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breaths [bodily fabrications] have been stopped. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has been stopped. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space has been stopped. When one has attained the dimension of nothingness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness has been stopped. When one has attained the dimension of neither-perception nor non-perception, the perception of the dimension of nothingness has been stopped. When one has attained the cessation of perception & feeling, perceptions & feelings [mental fabrications] have been stopped.

"These are the nine step-by-step stoppings."





My (probably silly) question is: if in- and out-breaths are stopped, how does a person remain alive? What am I missing?

Thank you for your kind replies!
:anjali:
Dhammabodhi
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

Kenshou
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Re: Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby Kenshou » Mon May 30, 2011 7:40 pm

I do not have a reference from Classical Theravada, but it's possible for the breathing to become so calm that you don't even notice it anymore.

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Re: Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby Dhammabodhi » Mon May 30, 2011 9:13 pm

Hi Kenshou,

I do understand that there is such a possibility. However, isn't calming the in-and-out breaths to the point that they are no longer noticeable, different from literally stopping them, as is claimed in the Sutta?

:anjali:
Dhammabodhi
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

rowyourboat
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Re: Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby rowyourboat » Tue May 31, 2011 11:01 pm

There is no real 'scientific' way to explain it. What we think is indispensable (craving, anger.. breathing!) may not be. In a proper deep fourth jhana the breath does indeed stop. It is not a matter of not noticing it. Mindfulness is well purified at that stage. :shrug:

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby Dhammabodhi » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:12 am

Hi RYB,

Thanks for your reply, there has been a scarcity of them. :tongue:

It is indeed strange, and yet not so strange. I guess if I am ever fortunate enough to experience the fourth jhana I would know then. So does everything in the body stop? Even the :heart:?

:anjali:
Dhammabodhi
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

rowyourboat
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: London, UK

Re: Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:25 am

Hi Dhammabodi,

Hmm if the heart were to stop as well that would real interesting! I assume it slows down, but that is just speculation because 1) I can't feel my heartbeat reliably 2) it is not mentioned in the suttas. In fact I can't think of many places the experience of the heart beat is mentioned at all in the suttas.

I don't think the jhanas are that far a away- given enough time and motivation most people can experience these states. :anjali:

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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