Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

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PeterB
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by PeterB »

When reading ANYTHING attributed to Ajahn Chah it is worth remembering that he wrote nothing. That his talks are edited versions of translations . And that he addressed the person or persons who were in front of him at the time...
It is therefore possible to find passages in which he appears to contradict himself....he isn't.
His remarks were specific to that person in those circumstances.
Given that he had a teacher and many scores of students he was certainly not saying that a human teacher was unneccessary.
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mikenz66
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by mikenz66 »

I agree,

I've been reading "The Island" by Ajahns Passano and Amaro, and they throw in a few long passages from Ajahn Chah from which it is clear that he had plenty of book knowledge of the Pali terminology. He just didn't always express it that way...

:anjali:
Mike
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by bodom »

mikenz66 wrote:I agree,

I've been reading "The Island" by Ajahns Passano and Amaro, and they throw in a few long passages from Ajahn Chah from which it is clear that he had plenty of book knowledge of the Pali terminology. He just didn't always express it that way...

:anjali:
Mike
Excellent, excellent book!

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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christopher:::
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

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Concerning these ideas about learning from Nature and all things being a teacher- it may make more sense if seen in the context of many lifetimes of practice, usually involving human teachers and contact with more explicit dhamma teachings. On the other hand, if we observe the Natural world carefully i think one can get a glimpse of what Ajahn Chah was talking about.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by bodom »

christopher::: wrote:On the other hand, if we observe the Natural world carefully i think one can get a glimpse of what Ajahn Chah was talking about.
See especially this talk:

Dhamma Nature
http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Dhamma_Nature1.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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christopher:::
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by christopher::: »

bodom wrote:
christopher::: wrote:On the other hand, if we observe the Natural world carefully i think one can get a glimpse of what Ajahn Chah was talking about.
See especially this talk:

Dhamma Nature
http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Dhamma_Nature1.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Yes..!
christopher::: wrote:Excerpt from another excellent dhamma talk by Ajahn Chah, both insightful and challenging, imo...

"With even a little intuitive wisdom, we will then be able to see clearly through the ways of the world. We will come to understand that everything in the world is a teacher. Trees and vines, for example, can all reveal the true nature of reality. With wisdom there is no need to question anyone, no need to study. We can learn from nature enough to be enlightened, as in the story of King Mahajanaka, because everything follows the way of truth. It does not diverge from truth.

Associated with wisdom are self-composure and restraint which, in turn, can lead to further insight into the ways of nature. In this way, we will come to know the ultimate truth of everything being ''anicca-dukkha-anattā''...

''The real Dhamma'', the Buddha told Ananda, ''can only be realized through practice''. Whoever sees the Buddha, sees the Dhamma. And how is this? Previously, no Buddha existed; it was only when Siddhattha Gotama realized the Dhamma that he became the Buddha. If we explain it in this way, then He is the same as us. If we realize the Dhamma, then we will likewise be the Buddha. This is called the Buddha in mind or ''Nāma Dhamma''.

We must be mindful of everything we do, for we become the inheritors of our own good or evil actions. In doing good, we reap good. In doing evil, we reap evil. All you have to do is look into your everyday lives to know that this is so. Siddhattha Gotama was enlightened to the realization of this truth, and this gave rise to the appearance of a Buddha in the world. Likewise, if each and every person practices to attain to this truth, then they, too, will change to be Buddha."

~Ajahn Chah
Dhamma Nature


Image


:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Virgo
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by Virgo »

old dead wood wrote:
christopher::: wrote: So basically anything that relates to his life would be on topic here, with the online talks providing a central anchor for our discussion.
From all the reports, Ajahn Chah was a wonderful teacher, as are / were many others that we've listened to, read of, and heard about.
It would be interesting to find out if anyone could tell how mindful Ajahn Chah was able to remain at the time of his stroke. Was he able to let go of the suffering and not be taken by surprise by such a radical change in mental functioning ? I remember Ram Dass said something to the effect that his practice was a bit overpowered at the time of his stroke (did he mention that he "failed"?). I know other advanced practitioners far superior to me that suffered just like regular human beings via stroke, disability, and depression. This is where the rubber meets the road. Can practice be effective at times like this, can ANYONE let go of overpowering pain, suffering, fear, and depression instantly, or is it always a flawed human long-term adjusting process, no matter HOW "advanced" someone is ?
Hi,

I think you've got it wrong. The defilements of mind, such as attachment, aversion, and ignorance, can be permanently uprooted and abandoned. That is the teaching of the Buddha's.

Kevin
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by bodom »

christopher::: wrote:Yes..!:
Im sorry Christopher I didn't realize you had already posted that link.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
PeterB
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by PeterB »

I think the point is being missed here....or rather the context.
This is a transcript of a translation of an extemporised talk given by Luang Por Chah to monks who were already his disciples.
It is not a generalised homily written for future generations of unaffiliated westerners.
It assumes a number of things. Chief of which is the given nature of the student/teacher relationship.
It is saying that those who are in relationship to a teacher can find teaching in nature. Or find those teachings illustrated and reinforced.
A wider knowledge of Luang Por's thought...including a direct knowledge of his legacy via his successors would make that clear. He is not advocating a Romantic view of nature of a kind so adroitly skewered by Bhikkhu Thanissaro .
A view of nature which the late M.C.O'Walsh dismissed as Blue Doming " as in "my vihara is the blue dome of the sky "...
PeterB
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by PeterB »

old dead wood wrote:
christopher::: wrote: So basically anything that relates to his life would be on topic here, with the online talks providing a central anchor for our discussion.
From all the reports, Ajahn Chah was a wonderful teacher, as are / were many others that we've listened to, read of, and heard about.
It would be interesting to find out if anyone could tell how mindful Ajahn Chah was able to remain at the time of his stroke. Was he able to let go of the suffering and not be taken by surprise by such a radical change in mental functioning ? I remember Ram Dass said something to the effect that his practice was a bit overpowered at the time of his stroke (did he mention that he "failed"?). I know other advanced practitioners far superior to me that suffered just like regular human beings via stroke, disability, and depression. This is where the rubber meets the road. Can practice be effective at times like this, can ANYONE let go of overpowering pain, suffering, fear, and depression instantly, or is it always a flawed human long-term adjusting process, no matter HOW "advanced" someone is ?
I can tell you that during his last few months the monks who attended him on a 24 hour basis, said that his awareness and great presence.(.which had to be experienced to be believed, ) was as powerful as ever.
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christopher:::
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by christopher::: »

bodom wrote:
christopher::: wrote:Yes..!:
Im sorry Christopher I didn't realize you had already posted that link.

:anjali:
Not a problem, in the least.
PeterB wrote:I think the point is being missed here....or rather the context.
This is a transcript of a translation of an extemporised talk given by Luang Por Chah to monks who were already his disciples.
It is not a generalised homily written for future generations of unaffiliated westerners.
It assumes a number of things. Chief of which is the given nature of the student/teacher relationship.
It is saying that those who are in relationship to a teacher can find teaching in nature. Or find those teachings illustrated and reinforced.
A wider knowledge of Luang Por's thought...including a direct knowledge of his legacy via his successors would make that clear. He is not advocating a Romantic view of nature of a kind so adroitly skewered by Bhikkhu Thanissaro .
A view of nature which the late M.C.O'Walsh dismissed as Blue Doming " as in "my vihara is the blue dome of the sky "...
You may be absolutely right, Peter. Or- it may be that there was some simple wisdom being expressed here by Luang Por Chah which can be of benefit to others, outside his immediate circle (just as the teachings of the Buddha have "spoken" to millions down thru the ages)....

I do agree, that he's not advocating a Romantic view, he's talking about how we can see the Dhamma in Nature, that Nature is teaching what Buddha taught, we can see the "truth" of ''anicca-dukkha-anattā'' by mindfully observing the Natural world around us....
PeterB wrote: I can tell you that during his last few months the monks who attended him on a 24 hour basis, said that his awareness and great presence.(.which had to be experienced to be believed, ) was as powerful as ever.
Thanks for that info, Peter.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by bodom »

christopher wrote:I do agree, that he's not advocating a Romantic view, he's talking about how we can see the Dhamma in Nature, that Nature is teaching what Buddha taught, we can see the "truth" of ''anicca-dukkha-anattā'' by mindfully observing the Natural world around us....
Spot on Christopher, thank you.
Keep the meditation and the reflection going at all times. Just going for a walk and seeing dead leaves on the ground under a tree can provide an opportunity to contemplate impermanence. Both we and the leaves are the same: when we get old, we shrivel up and die. Other people are all the same. This is raising the mind to the level of vipassanā, contemplating the truth of the way things are, the whole time.
http://www.amaravati.org/abmnew/index.p ... le/488/P3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
PeterB
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by PeterB »

It is not clear to me how nature is teaching Dependant Origination (for example )....in contrast for example to our learning about D.O as a consequence of the event under the Bo Tree, and then seeing it work out in terms of arising phenomena.
Incidentally i would be most interested to hear which Thai or Lao term was translated as " nature" in the above quotation.
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christopher:::
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by christopher::: »

PeterB wrote:It is not clear to me how nature is teaching Dependant Origination (for example ).... in contrast for example to our learning about D.O as a consequence of the event under the Bo Tree, and then seeing it work out in terms of arising phenomena.
Indeed, I haven't seen where Luang Por Chah mentioned that Dependent Origination can be learned from observing Nature. In regards to the mind he talks about observing the "natural" workings of the mind, closely. See this talk for example.

But even in that talk D.O. isnt mentioned specifically. Perhaps Geoff or someone more deeply familiar with his teachings can answer that.
PeterB wrote:
Incidentally i would be most interested to hear which Thai or Lao term was translated as " nature" in the above quotation.
Here (below) is the Dhamma Nature talk in Thai. Anyone here fluent in Thai?

http://www.ajahnchah.org/thai/Dhammma_Nature.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
PeterB
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Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings

Post by PeterB »

That is my point. D.O. cant be learned from "nature..." ( whatever that is ).

Anicca and Dukkha can be observed in " nature". Spiritual seekers before the Buddha , particularly in the Vedic Dhammic traditions, developed samadhi states that enabled them to observe Anicca and Dukkha...
But D.O.is unique to Buddha Dhamma . It has to be discovered or rediscovered by a Sammasambuddha. It is the acme of Buddha Dhamma. Its sine qua non. It can not be deduced from " nature".
And Luang Por was not suggesting that it could.
He was referring to the way that natural phenomena are in accord with the Buddhas teaching. Not that they merely by observation can convey the breadth and subtlety of the Buddha's Dhamma.
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