If...Hi

[nathan]

If the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one...

Then, hi, my name is Nathan and I can still be either fooled, foolish or both.

[nathan]

You are welcome to say "hi nathan", join or address the "group". I'm trying to think of a dhamma equivalent of a 12 step group for some silly reason.


metta & upekkha

[SeerObserver]

I have had such thoughts regarding a dhamma-friendly equivalent before as well. Having known about AA for some time, it wasn't until later when I was curious enough about it to look the actual steps up that I actually found out the 12-step program is a Christian-leaned intervention, although I have no idea how the meetings actually go aside from what you see in TV shows and movies.

* Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable
* Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
* Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God
* Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
* Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs
* Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
* Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings
* Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
* Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
* Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it
* Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out
* Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs

We could easily make this to be more in line with our practice.

* Step 1 - We admitted we were not yet beyond out addiction - that we were not practicing right understanding
* Step 2 - Came to realize that to practice right understanding would lead us back into the path
* Step 3 - Made a decision to exercise our free will in order to overcome the vipaka we were experiencing and create better vipaka
* Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
* Step 5 - Admitted to ourselves and came to have a right understanding of the nature of our wrongs
* Step 6 - Were entirely ready to practice right effort in order to remove all these defects of character
* Step 7 - Made a resolution to practice the right understanding, thought, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, and concentration to remove our shortcomings
* Step 8 - Were aware of our past mistakes and resolved not to commit them again and to make merit in order to dilute the vipaka that would arise as a result as well as cause better vipaka for us.
* Step 9 - Made direct amends to people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
* Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it
* Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with our inner selves and to recollect on the resolutions we have made
* Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs

[nathan]

Good thinking SeerObserver, thanks for sharing it.

[Cittasanto]

There are also the 12 Traditions

1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
5. Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

[nathan]

Thanks again. So far I have only gone on the record with the group as agreeing that
3.I can still be either fooled, foolish or both and that this is a problem for me.
Anything more and I think I would need at least two more voting members to tentatively agree to it ok?
I for one am looking to solve the problem, in however many steps are necessary, and I am sure that one path will cover it if it is the right path and I continue to take whatever steps are necessary to remain on that path.

[SeerObserver]

Thanks again. So far I have only gone on the record with the group as agreeing that
3.I can still be either fooled, foolish or both and that this is a problem for me.
Anything more and I think I would need at least two more voting members to tentatively agree to it ok?
I for one am looking to solve the problem, in however many steps are necessary, and I am sure that one path will cover it if it is the right path and I continue to take whatever steps are necessary to remain on that path.

What is it exactly that you're trying to do with this thread, start an AA style group?

And wouldn't your admission that you can (...) be step one?

[termite]

This conversation is so...yesterday.

[nathan]

This conversation is so...yesterday.

You would know then. I typed several long pages of replies and then deleted them. Fine. Let it die. We are hopeless fools and no one cares. Good to know.

[termite]

This conversation is so...yesterday.

You would know then. I typed several long pages of replies and then deleted them. Fine. Let it die. We are hopeless fools and no one cares. Good to know.

I was only joking, based upon it having been the day after April Fools' Day. I gladly accept "hopeless fool" as a label for this mess; it's as good as any other name.

[nathan]

No problemo, I think step #2 should be renouncing levity.