Paid dhamma teachers

[pilgrim]

Godwin Samararatne of the Nilambe Meditation Centrre in Kandy was one of the most well-known lay teachers in recent times. He taught for more than 20 years at the Centre. Does anyone know the model that was used there to sustain his teaching?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin_Samararatne" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[adosa]

Godwin Samararatne of the Nilambe Meditation Centrre in Kandy was one of the most well-known lay teachers in recent times. He taught for more than 20 years at the Centre. Does anyone know the model that was used there to sustain his teaching?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin_Samararatne" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nilambe.org/practical.html

adosa

[rowyourboat]

A mixture of foreign exchange currency and local donations seems to be sufficient.

Also similar arrangement here:

http://www.nirodhatrust.org/NT/Home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta

Matheesha

[pilgrim]

The website states that some payment is expected from those who make use of the teachings and facilities at the Centers. Can we then assume that the management of the center then pays some money, however small to the teacher? I believe it'll be difficult for a layman to commit so much time to teaching, if his expenses directly incurred in teaching, plus perhaps additional sums to cover normal expenses of living a lay life are not taken care of.

[danieLion]

4. A number of aggressive teachers are making it into a significant money making enterprise, getting legal, getting corporate and getting nasty.

Hi Jhana4,
I agree. Were you thinking of any teachers in particular?
Daniel

[rowyourboat]

The conclusion I came to after this thread and others on DW is that if I am to 'safeguard the Truth' what I teach/others teach must not in anyway be influenced by personal gain (especially money). The Buddha I feel is 'on the money' once again, on this matter of not teaching the dhamma for personal gain. I rather be able to say/hear the dhamma according to the suttas, in all it's effective rawness than these flowery concoctions which inadvertently lead to subtle attachment to the 'spiritual'.

With metta

Matheesha

[cooran]

Hello all,

Patrick Kearney always gives a talk during the Retreat on the Economy of the Gift. He does not charge for his teaching of retreats (I was recently on a 16 day Retreat of his in Perth).

In the Buddhist tradition, the dhamma teachings of wisdom and compassion are felt to be of such great value that one cannot put a price on it, it can not be bought or sold in the market place, it is priceless.

The teachings of liberation have been passed down through the generations by this ancient practice of dana: receiving and transmitting these teachings as a gift. All fees charged by the Organisers for retreats are simply to cover the basic expenses, food, accommodation.
Patrick does not charge a fee, the teachings are given freely - as does Sobhana and the other insight meditation teachers in Australia.

When we hear these teachings we are touched and moved, and the feelings of appreciation and gratitude naturally express themselves in the act of generosity by offering dana to the teacher, thus circulating and completing the gift. This natural response marks our entry into the economy of gift, where buying and selling are replaced by giving and receiving, and where the defining relationship is one of spiritual friendship. The act of giving is a declaration of mutual respect. Giver and receiver recognise they share the same fundamental values and concerns.

The gift takes us beyond the limitations of our normal self-interest and opens us to a life of mutual care, called good friendship (kalyana mitta) by the Buddha. The practice of generosity is consider to be one of the highest virtures in the Buddhist tradition, as within every act of generosity, there is also the act of relinquishment, thus cultivating the spirit of letting go.

The teachings, meditations and retreats offered through his website are all offered on a dana (gift) basis. If you wish to support this work one way would be to make a payment into Patrick’s bank account. Any gift is greatly appreciated and will help to continue to nurture the dhamma in Australia and beyond. May the virtue of your gift be a support for you and for all beings to attain freedom and liberation … the complete cessation of suffering.

Patrick encourages those who wish to give Dana to do it face-to-face with him. It is amazing just how hard that was to do the first time. In the West, we are so used to donating anonymously or via credit card or internet, that we feel almost embarrassed giving the envelope into the hands of the teacher. But the smiles and exchange of greetings and appreciative remarks during the process (from both sides) are interesting and beneficial. It was a growth experience. Though those who couldn't do it, could still put a note in the Dana box.

So - in my opinion, accommodation and food may be paid for, but the Dhamma Teachings are not to be bought and sold.

with metta
Chris

[Kim OHara]

The website states that some payment is expected from those who make use of the teachings and facilities at the Centers. Can we then assume that the management of the center then pays some money, however small to the teacher? I believe it'll be difficult for a layman to commit so much time to teaching, if his expenses directly incurred in teaching, plus perhaps additional sums to cover normal expenses of living a lay life are not taken care of.

When we hear these teachings we are touched and moved, and the feelings of appreciation and gratitude naturally express themselves in the act of generosity by offering dana to the teacher, thus circulating and completing the gift. This natural response marks our entry into the economy of gift, where buying and selling are replaced by giving and receiving, and where the defining relationship is one of spiritual friendship.

The problem, as I see it, is what happens to a teacher in the gap between these two models.
The 'economy of the gift' is a lovely idea but a structure for it has to be put in place by (or for) each lay teacher who wishes to commit a large amount of time to teaching, in a society which has no tradition of dana for teachers.
I know one lay teacher of Buddhist meditation whose commitments have gradually spread into chaplaincy work. She is putting in maybe ten hours per week (maybe a bit more - she doesn't talk about it much) and juggling her shift work around it. Students in the meditation class give donations but the teacher has never even considered accepting anything for herself so the donations cover administrative costs and the remainder goes to Buddhist charities overseas.
As things stand, the teacher is meeting the demands upon her time but she can't give much more time to it, no matter how willing she is, without giving up (some of) her paid work - with the usual consequences for her family. I don't think it is fair that she should to do that unless she can replace that income.
There are two sides to being able to put some money in her hands: (1) she has to accept that it is 'all right' to take some money, after years of not doing so, and (2) the group which helps organise the classes has to change the financial arrangements so as to pass some money her way.
Is there any fundamental difference between the group saying, "Dear teacher, please take for yourself half of the money in the donations jar after each class," and, "Dear teacher, the average amount of money in the donations jar is usually about $50. We would like to pay you $25 out of it for each class" ?
The first is nominally a gift, the second is apparently a fee. Does it matter? If so, why?


Kim

[Kim OHara]

Bump.
It's a real-life question, it has been bothering me for months, and I really would appreciate your input.


Kim

[kirk5a]

Bump.
It's a real-life question, it has been bothering me for months, and I really would appreciate your input.


Kim

What's the problem with how things are now, as you described above? Are there more demands for this teacher's time, being made by students? If not, why does she need to spend more time on teaching, and thereby have a financial problem?

[Kim OHara]

What's the problem with how things are now, as you described above? Are there more demands for this teacher's time, being made by students? If not, why does she need to spend more time on teaching, and thereby have a financial problem?

The demands have gradually increased over the last three (to my knowledge) years and there are constantly opportunities to do more that she has to let pass because her 'spare' time is already over-committed.
Even without such new commitments, the current state of affairs is barely satisfactory. You probably know yourself that someone whose time is chronically a little over-committed (whatever they are doing), is usually a bit stressed and often a bit rushed. When you see someone in that state because of the community work they are willingly accepting, the impulse is to help, isn't it? That's why I'm interested in your (i.e. everyone's, not just kirk5a's) answers.

Kim

[rowyourboat]

Hi Kim,

Look at Piya Tan, full time lay dhamma teacher, fully supported by the Singaporean lay community:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piya_Tan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta

Matheesha

[kirk5a]

Even without such new commitments, the current state of affairs is barely satisfactory. You probably know yourself that someone whose time is chronically a little over-committed (whatever they are doing), is usually a bit stressed and often a bit rushed. When you see someone in that state because of the community work they are willingly accepting, the impulse is to help, isn't it?

I appreciate the wish to help, however is her stressing and rushing truly a matter of external conditions?

[Kim OHara]

Even without such new commitments, the current state of affairs is barely satisfactory. You probably know yourself that someone whose time is chronically a little over-committed (whatever they are doing), is usually a bit stressed and often a bit rushed. When you see someone in that state because of the community work they are willingly accepting, the impulse is to help, isn't it?

I appreciate the wish to help, however is her stressing and rushing truly a matter of external conditions?

No, in that she freely accepts the dhamma teaching role and the wife role and the wage-earner role.
Yes, in so far as the demands of those competing roles slightly exceed the time available. Another (similarly over-committed) friend of mine used to joke that she would do the extra stuff on 'Tuesday B' but we all know there is really only one Tuesday in each week.

Kim

[kirk5a]

Yes, of course, who has time? Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time?

- the Merovingian in The Matrix Reloaded