"Wherever one's selfhood turns up...."

[phil]

The title of this thread refers to a ttanslation used in AN 3.33 by Ven. Thannisaro. As we know, he sometimes uses comtoversial turns of phrase. I personally don't have a problem with "selfhood" because I know his point is always that our sense of self or personal identity is fabricated and will or will not be seen through. But I wonder if anyone could provide the Pali that is used that he translated as "selfhood.". I remember there is a term that might be something like attano bhava patilabho (might!) to describe the sense(?)of personal existence or personal identity, I wonder if that is used here.


Thanks, if there are any Pali pals out there...

[Ben]

Duplicate thread removed from view.

[Goofaholix]

I'd have thought it was a good translation for Atta, translating Atta "self" implies somthing real adding "hood" at the end implies something conceptual to me.

[phil]

I'd have thought it was a good translation for Atta, translating Atta "self" implies somthing real adding "hood" at the end implies something conceptual to me.

Thanks Goofaholix.

This sutta refers to kamma bearing fruit in future lifetimes, if I'm not mistaken, so it would seem that if it were simply "atta" it would imply a transmigrating self.

I agree that "hood" adds conceptual sense, and helps to differentiate from a real entity self and maybe one reading the Pali with right understanding would read it as such even if it were simply atta..

But I have seen Pali terms that provide for that sense of self, they always interest me...

[Alex123]

The title of this thread refers to a ttanslation used in AN 3.33 by Ven. Thannisaro. As we know, he sometimes uses comtoversial turns of phrase. I personally don't have a problem with "selfhood" because I know his point is always that our sense of self or personal identity is fabricated and will or will not be seen through. But I wonder if anyone could provide the Pali that is used that he translated as "selfhood.". I remember there is a term that might be something like attano bhava patilabho (might!) to describe the sense(?)of personal existence or personal identity, I wonder if that is used here.
Thanks, if there are any Pali pals out there...

The pali is "attabhāvo nibbattati"
atta=soul; oneself.
attabhāvo= personality; individuality.
bhāvo = condition; nature; becoming.
nibbattati= is born; results; arises.

[phil]

The title of this thread refers to a ttanslation used in AN 3.33 by Ven. Thannisaro. As we know, he sometimes uses comtoversial turns of phrase. I personally don't have a problem with "selfhood" because I know his point is always that our sense of self or personal identity is fabricated and will or will not be seen through. But I wonder if anyone could provide the Pali that is used that he translated as "selfhood.". I remember there is a term that might be something like attano bhava patilabho (might!) to describe the sense(?)of personal existence or personal identity, I wonder if that is used here.
Thanks, if there are any Pali pals out there...

The pali is "attabhāvo nibbattati"
atta=soul; oneself.
attabhāvo= personality; individuality.
bhāvo = condition; nature; becoming.
nibbattati= is born; results; arises.

Intetesting, thanks Alex.

[gavesako]

Yes, the Pali word "attabhāva" is used in the Suttas often to describe the shape of form in which one is reborn, lit. "self-hood". In one sutta a deva is reborn with a subtle body the size or two or three fields for example.

[phil]

Yes, the Pali word "attabhāva" is used in the Suttas often to describe the shape of form in which one is reborn, lit. "self-hood". In one sutta a deva is reborn with a subtle body the size or two or three fields for example.

Thank you, Bhante.

I might like to continue this topic and ask for other reference where-else attabhaava is used in the canon, and also ask about whether the idea of bhava includes different selfhood that "turn up" moment by moment, rather than with the rebirth citta, but not here and not now, especially since it was moved into the Pali corner, not a place for that topic.