Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
alan
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by alan »

Sorry, santa. Didn't mean to bite your head off. But that statement wasn't really thought out properly, was it?
To be positive, you seem to have stumbled onto a way to solve the problem of overpopulation.
chownah
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by chownah »

alan wrote:That is a plainly awful question which has no relevance to any moral situation.
alan,
I think that the method he is suggesting is pretty much a standard approach to morality...the idea is that if you have to hide some activity then you should try to discern why you have to hide it and that quite often you hide it because it is not moral....the only difference here is that he is applying it ot the sex act explicitely.

Another application of this method is to consider telling someone something in confidence (a secret)....if something can't be said in public then perhaps (note "perhaps" here....not "obviously"....not "assuredly") you should not be saying it at all.

I think it is a valuable technique to help in finding out (note "help" here...not "conclusively") what actions one should not engage in....it is just one method to aid introspection....

I don't know if applying this method to the sex act will help us understand something (note "something" here...not "something valuable"..not "everything"...not "important things")about our inner feelings about the sex act and my view is that pondering this can be valuable...although I'm not sure that it will lead where santa100 might (note "might" not "does" not "obviously") think it does.
chownah
alan
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by alan »

If this is the "standard approach" to morality, it is an obvious fail, as it is wildly inappropriate in dealing with sexual issues.
The rest of your post is unreadable.
santa100
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by santa100 »

Hey Alan, patience, close attention, and investigation are virtues of Theravadins. Don't jump to conclusion too quickly. Look at Chownah, at least he investigated and analyzed my statement. The reason I like Buddhism and the Theravada tradition because they're pragmatic. After all, if religions aren't there to help solving the troubles of our lives, what's the point of talking about them? Chownah pretty much got my idea. Guess I could clarify my approach by stating it in a more diplomatic or sensible way. All I was trying to say is to emphasize the concept of "transparency". Any kind of precept violation has zero transparency, including sexual misconduct obviously. Thus I stand by my previous statement because of this: if I was legally married to my wife, then suppose (Again, I have to emphasize the big word SUPPOSE this time), we're to get "busy" in broad day-light, in front of friends, relatives, loved ones, nobody, not my wife, not my friends, not my relatives, NOBODY will object to what we're doing. Embarassment? Of course yes, but objection? resentment? suffering? NO! Now that's "transparency". Beside, it's all common sense, hey, if you don't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?
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BlackBird
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by BlackBird »

Actually, I would object to seeing you and your partner get busy. I imagine some people would be resentful, some people would be jealous, some people would find it disgusting, some people would want to hurt you or harm you and some people might even go through with such an act of violence. Any action whereby you encourage negative mental states in yourself or others is a harmful action which creates a lot of suffering. Nobody would object to your right to have sex with your wife. But very few people in the world would want to see it. I guarantee you if they were forced to watch you and your partner 'get busy' then there would be a lot more dishes on the emotional smorgasbord than just embarrassment.

No offense intended, but this is a really silly example you've put forth and it doesn't aid your case in the slightest.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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chownah
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by chownah »

BlackBird wrote: Nobody would object to your right to have sex with your wife. But very few people in the world would want to see it.
Some people spend hours on the internet searching for similar things....and then PAY for it!!!
chownah
alan
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by alan »

That is the type of juvenile response you have become famous for, chownah.
santa100
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by santa100 »

Obviously I'm lousy at describing well-intended ideas. I did use the world Suppose to raise a hypothetical situation to convey the "transparency" idea. I'm not advocating "exhibitionism" or anything. There's no way in....I would do that act in broad daylight in front of people. But just for a hypothetical situation, I don't know, you forget to close your window, or locking your door, your friends and relatives sneak into your house for a surprised birthday party,.... whatever hypothetical situations there are, they key I'm trying to address is the "transparency" of our actions. If 2 people are engaging in sexual misconduct, their friends, relatives, and loved ones will not approve of them. If they're legally married, and for some hypothetical reason, their friends, relatives, and loved ones happen to see them getting "busy", then there's no problem. I'm sure if you could take just a few minutes to contemplate on my true intention, you'll understand what I'm trying to say. At least, there's 1 guy who understood me. I really have good intention here. I certainly am not advocating any pervert practice....
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BlackBird
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by BlackBird »

Okay, I think I see where you're coming from here - Please clarify: I think You're saying that if you and your wife were going at it in your bedroom and by some accident a relative walked in on you, they wouldn't feel what you were doing was wrong, they would just feel embarrassed. If that's what you were driving at, I understand.

A much simpler way of putting this whole thing is to say: "What would society think of this, and is their judgement fair and justified."
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
santa100
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by santa100 »

Yes, thank you, "by some accident, your friends, loved ones, relatives walk in"....that's it. That's what I meant when I tried to describe the principle of "transparency". That's all it is, precept, morality,...you know you have it if you have nothing to hide...
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BlackBird
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by BlackBird »

In that case I think what you intended to convey is quite agreeable.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
chownah
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Re: Sex with Courtesans and Married People

Post by chownah »

alan wrote:That is the type of juvenile response you have become famous for, chownah.
Wow....I'm flattered..... implying that my youthful discernment has made me famous is liabel to turn my pretty little head. Also notice that my post was in direct response to the notion that no one would be interested in viewing it which as I have pointed out seems to be mistaken....some people have suggested that viewing of sexual images is the major use of the web....I don't know this...I've just heard people claim this.
chownah
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