The Great Jhana Debate

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Nyana
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Nyana »

reflection wrote:Whatever any teacher says, contemplation can not be the development of concentration. I don't see how that is not obvious. That doesn't mean contemplating is useless as a whole, but it is a formation of the hindrance of restlessness (or possibly doubt) during concentration development.
Contemplation (anupassanā) leads to integral meditative composure (sammāsamādhi). Contemplating one of the four applications of mindfulness is the cause of integral meditative composure. MN 44 Culavedalla Sutta:
  • Singleness of mind (cittassa ekaggatā) is meditative composure, friend Visakha; the four applications of mindfulness are its causes (nimitta); the four integral exertions are its requisites; and any cultivation, development, and pursuit of these qualities is its development.
This relationship between the development of the four applications of mindfulness (catunna satipaṭṭhānā bhāvanā) and integral meditative composure is also presented in SN 47.4 Sāla Sutta:
  • Come, friends, remain contemplating the body in the body, ardent, fully aware, unified, with a limpid mind, composed, with singleness of mind, in order to know the body as it really is. Remain contemplating feelings in feelings, ardent, fully aware, unified, with a limpid mind, composed, with singleness of mind, in order to know feelings as they really are. Remain contemplating mind in mind, ardent, fully aware, unified, with a limpid mind, composed, with singleness of mind, in order to know the mind as it really is. Remain contemplating phenomena in phenomena, ardent, fully aware, unified, with a limpid mind, composed, with singleness of mind, in order to know phenomena as they really are.
The mental qualities of remaining ardent (ātāpī) and fully aware (sampajāna), which are standard in the descriptions of integral mindfulness, are here directly related to remaining unified (ekodibhūtā), with a limpid mind (vippasannacittā), composed (samāhitā), with singleness of mind (ekaggacittā). This discourse also indicates the relationship between mindfulness, contemplation, and meditative composure in order to know as they really are (yathābhūta ñāṇāya) the body, feelings, mind, and phenomena; fully understand (pariññāya) the body, feelings, mind, and phenomena; and remain detached from (visaṃyuttā) the body, feelings, mind, and phenomena.

Regarding the relationship between the applications of mindfulness and the jhāna factors of the four jhānas, we find the following instructions in AN 8.63 Saṅkhittadesita Sutta:
  • ‘I will remain contemplating the body in the body... feelings in feelings... mind in mind... phenomena in phenomena, ardent, fully aware, mindful, having removed covetousness and unhappiness with regard to the world.’ That, monk, is how you should train.

    When, monk, this meditative composure is developed in this way and made much of, you should develop this meditative composure with directed thought and evaluation, you should develop it without directed thought but with mere evaluation, you should develop it without directed thought and evaluation, you should develop it with joy, you should develop it without joy, you should develop it with comfort, you should develop it with equanimity.
reflection wrote:The same goes for having more than one sense active. By the very definition of the word "one" ;) , one pointed concentration can not be involved with more than one of the 6 senses. Because the mind always backs up the other 5 senses and those can not be noticed separately, the one sense to be concentrated on is the mind itself. Having 5 sense activity is the first hindrance of sensual craving at work.
AN 4.12 Sīla Sutta informs us that singleness of mind can be maintained and the five hindrances abandoned in any of the four postures (standing, walking, sitting, reclining). Moreover, the occurrence of light nimittas and other rūpāvacara phenomena in jhāna requires the activity of the corresponding sense faculties. This has already been indicated in the quotation from Nettippakaraṇa 4.22.
reflection wrote:So samatha jhana is beyond the 5 hindrances, while "vipassana jhana" is not, so is not jhana.
The hindrances are abandoned through integral mindfulness prior to jhāna. MN 39 Mahāssapura Sutta elaborates:
  • Here monks, a monk resorts to a secluded dwelling: a forest, the shade of a tree, a mountain, a glen, a hillside cave, a charnel ground, a jungle grove, an open space, a heap of straw. After his meal, returning from his alms round, he sits down, crosses his legs, holds his body upright, and brings mindfulness to the fore.

    Abandoning covetousness with regard to the world [a synonym for the first hindrance], he dwells with a mind devoid of covetousness. He cleanses his mind of covetousness. Abandoning aversion and anger, he dwells with a mind devoid of aversion, sympathetic to the welfare of all living beings. He cleanses his mind of aversion and anger. Abandoning lethargy and drowsiness, he dwells with a mind devoid of lethargy and drowsiness, mindful, fully aware, clearly percipient. He cleanses his mind of lethargy and drowsiness. Abandoning restlessness and anxiety, he dwells undisturbed, his mind inwardly stilled. He cleanses his mind of restlessness and anxiety. Abandoning doubt, he dwells having crossed over doubt, with no perplexity with regard to skillful phenomena. He cleanses his mind of doubt.
reflection wrote:I really encourage everybody to give it a shot, you won't be disappointed. I keep repeating this, because an underestimation of jhana also means an underestimation of the hindrances. And the hindrances are the main thing between us and enlightenment.
It would be good to drop the condescending attitude and acknowledge that other members may have just as much or more experience in these matters than you do.

All the best,

Geoff
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reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by reflection »

Hi Geoff,

:namaste:

I am not saying other members don't know about this subject, but I think a debate should serve a purpose other than just trying to be right. So I try to encourage people, I'm not trying set them aside as inexperienced. I'm sorry if my intention wasn't clear enough. I do that because I think the quote below is only really possible having experienced absorption, when the mind saw the mind.

"Remain contemplating mind in mind, ardent, fully aware, unified, with a limpid mind, composed, with singleness of mind, in order to know the mind as it really is."

Likewise, it's quite hard to contemplate how an engine works without ever having opened the bonnet of a car to look at it. We can argue about the interpretation of the suttas, but I've said before why I don't think that will do a lot. They can easily be interpreted both ways depending on how one wants to read them.

With metta,
Reflection
Last edited by reflection on Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nyana
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Nyana »

reflection wrote:I am not saying other members don't know about this subject, but I think a debate should serve a purpose other than just trying to be right.
I would suggest that a statement such as the following is not only incorrect, it also fails to account for the actual experience of numerous teachers and practitioners:
reflection wrote:Whatever any teacher says, contemplation can not be the development of concentration. I don't see how that is not obvious.
Anyone who denies the efficacy of classical vipassanābhāvanā without rūpāvacarajjhāna and modern Burmese vipassanā jhāna is asserting that they -- and the select few that agree with them -- are right, and anyone who doesn't agree with them is necessarily wrong. This not only represents a dismissive, extreme agenda, the entire premise is nonsensical on the face of it.

All the best,

Geoff
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reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by reflection »

Ñāṇa wrote:
reflection wrote:I am not saying other members don't know about this subject, but I think a debate should serve a purpose other than just trying to be right.
I would suggest that a statement such as the following is not only incorrect, it also fails to account for the actual experience of numerous teachers and practitioners:
reflection wrote:Whatever any teacher says, contemplation can not be the development of concentration. I don't see how that is not obvious.
Anyone who denies the efficacy of classical vipassanābhāvanā without rūpāvacarajjhāna and modern Burmese vipassanā jhāna is asserting that they -- and the select few that agree with them -- are right, and anyone who doesn't agree with them is necessarily wrong. This not only represents a dismissive, extreme agenda, the entire premise is nonsensical on the face of it.

All the best,

Geoff
Dear Geoff,
:namaste:

Vipassana is very useful, I don't recall denying that. Those "vipassana jhana" experiences are undoubtedly true experiences. I'm just saying it is not an absorption when you can still contemplate in it, imo jhanas are deeper. And I think you need those kind of full absorptions on the path. To call that opinion dismissive of other practitioners doesn't really support a reasonable debate. That's like saying someone is dismissive of cyclers when one thinks you need a car to win a specific race; It doesn't add anything to the discussion other than tension.

Anyway, you can call me extreme if you want, that part may be true. :P Extreme views are not necessarily wrong views. If it was easy to develop samadhi, we would all be enlightened. ;)

Metta,
Reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by beeblebrox »

Maybe I missed something, but isn't the point of jhana is to create an ideal condition for yourself from which you can do the vipassana, i.e. to see clearly the characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta... and also to see the unfolding of the paticca sammupada... which leads to liberation? Practicing the jhana for its own sake just seems pointless to me. It's not samma-samadhi... just a wrongly directed concentration.

:anjali:
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reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by reflection »

beeblebrox wrote:Maybe I missed something, but isn't the point of jhana is to create an ideal condition for yourself from which you can do the vipassana, i.e. to see clearly the characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta... and also to see the unfolding of the paticca sammupada... which leads to liberation? Practicing the jhana for its own sake just seems pointless to me. It's not samma-samadhi... just a wrongly directed concentration.

:anjali:
Yes, you are right. "No jhana, no wisdom. No wisdom, no jhana." I think we all know that quote from the Dhammapada, plus the many more quotes that point to this. The two are like two sides of a coin.

:namaste:
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Nyana »

reflection wrote:I'm just saying it is not an absorption when you can still contemplate in it, imo jhanas are deeper. And I think you need those kind of full absorptions on the path.
And I'm saying that you are holding to an interpretation of sammāsamādhi and jhāna which isn't supported by the canon. Ven. Gunaratana, Should We Come Out of Jhāna to Practice Vipassanā?:
  • [W]hen we become absorbed into our object of focus, what we are practicing is "wrong" Jhāna. When we practice "right" Jhāna we will be able to see things as they really are.

    When we read how the Buddha used his own fourth Jhānic concentration, as described in many Suttas, we have no reason to believe that he came out of Jhāna to develop the three kinds of knowledge—knowledge of seeing the past, knowledge of seeing beings dying and taking rebirth, and knowledge of the destruction of defilements. The Buddha used the fourth Jhāna for Vipassanā.

    Using the English word "absorption" to denote the deep concentration in the Jhāna is very misleading. There are many mental factors in any Jhāna and the meditator is quite aware of them. When you are aware of these mental factors you are not absorbed into them, but conscious of them or mindful of them. If you are absorbed in the subject you will not understand, nor remember anything.
reflection wrote:And I think you need those kind of full absorptions on the path.
And the Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, and Sautrāntika Ācariyas explicitly state that you don't. I see no good reason whatsoever to dismiss what they have to say on the subject.

All the best,

Geoff
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by daverupa »

Is it not the case that one can practice anapanasati within jhana? It simply seems to me that this is why, in the anapanasati section of the Samyutta Nikaya the term appears there as both anapanasati and anapanasatisamadhi. This, paired with the instruction about material form while in rupa jhana, makes simple and elegant sense to me.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Nyana »

daverupa wrote:Is it not the case that one can practice anapanasati within jhana? It simply seems to me that this is why, in the anapanasati section of the Samyutta Nikaya the term appears there as both anapanasati and anapanasatisamadhi. This, paired with the instruction about material form while in rupa jhana, makes simple and elegant sense to me.
Indeed. The purpose of developing jhāna is to refine sati and sampajāna. This is clearly evident from the Peṭakopadesa's analysis and enumeration of the jhāna factors of each of the four jhānas, which accords well with the suttas:

Image

All the best,

Geoff
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Nyana »

mikenz66 wrote:I am familiar with this distinction from Mahasi-school teachers and the commentarial literature.
However, I'm a little hazy about references to the vipassana jhanas in the Suttas themselves. Are you able to point to some examples?
In addition to what was quoted here, there is AN 4.41 Samādhibhāvanā Sutta, which instructs us on how to develop meditative composure which leads to mindfulness and full awareness:
  • And what, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness? Here, monks, feelings are known to a monk as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Recognitions are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. This, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness.
Note how the phrase "known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear" also occurs in MN 111 Anupada Sutta which describes the clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occur (anupadadhammavipassanā):
  • Now Sāriputta’s clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occurred was this:

    Whatever phenomena there are in the first jhāna: directed thought, evaluation, joy, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, recognition, intention, mind, desire, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention; he analyzed these phenomena one by one as they occurred. Known to him they arose, known they were present, known they disappeared.
Also, the jhāna factors of the four jhānas are embedded within the seven factors of awakening. The seven factors of awakening are one of the most commonly found developmental models in the Pāli dhamma. SN 46.71 Anicca Sutta informs us that sustained, dedicated practice of the recognition of impermanence will create the optimal conditions for the arising of all seven factors of awakening. SN 46.71 Anicca Sutta (abridged):
  • Here monks, a monk develops the awakening factor of mindfulness accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of meditative composure accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of equanimity accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go.

    It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it is of great fruit and benefit. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great good. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security from bondage. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort.
The same is then said in SN 46.72 for the recognition of unsatisfactoriness in what is impermanent, and in SN 46.73 for the recognition of selflessness in what is unsatisfactory. All of these passages offer ample canonical support for Sayādaw U Pandita's teaching of vipassanā jhāna occurring with the jhāna factors of each of the four jhānas, and therefore fulfilling the criteria of the standard jhāna formula.

All the best,

Geoff
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Geoff, Thank you very much for the excellent sutta references.
Ñāṇa wrote: In addition to what was quoted here, there is AN 4.41 Samādhibhāvanā Sutta, which instructs us on how to develop meditative composure which leads to mindfulness and full awareness:
  • And what, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness? Here, monks, feelings are known to a monk as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Recognitions are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. This, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness.
Sounds like the instructions one gets from Mahasi-style teachers... It's certainly what I aim for (but don't necessarily achieve...).

It's interesting that many of the Suttas you've quoted here are from the AN, and don't appear in the commonly-available translations. I'm looking forward to Bhikkhu Bodhi's new translation...

:anjali:
Mike
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Alex123
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Alex123 »

Dear Sylvester and all,
Sylvester wrote: And I would point out that all of these sutta definitions were given in relation to the rūpakhandha.
Where would you class the physical eye in the 5 Khandha scheme?
Where would you class "visual object" in the 5 Khandha scheme?

Both the physical eye and external object are material. The only material khandha is rūpakhandha.
I am sure nobody would class physical eye or external visual object as feeling, perception, volition or consciousness.


So far you are only showing me the MN102 sutta. I've read it again and again (in English) and can't see the relevance. What I understand it to say is that base of nothingness is the best (mundane) perception attainment.
Sylvester wrote: Your thesis would entail that the sense organs can only come into existence if there is eye-cognisable data.
Sense organs can objectively exist even if one is totally unconscious, example: in nirodha samapatti one's physical body doesn't disappear. The only thing is that that person is not percipient of any thing.


Another sutta that I've remembered. MN137
"There is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity; and there is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness.

"And what is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity? There is equanimity with regard to forms, equanimity with regard to sounds...smells...tastes...tactile sensations [& ideas: this word appears in one of the recensions]. This is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity.

"And what is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness? There is equanimity dependent on the dimension of the infinitude of space, equanimity dependent on the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... dependent on the dimension of nothingness... dependent on the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. This is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness.

"By depending & relying on equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness, abandon & transcend equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Please note:
Equanimity dependent on singleness is dimension of the infinitude of space and higher! Not 1st Jhāna
One overcomes multiplicity when one reaches dimension of the infinitude of space, not 1st Jhāna.
5 Sense perception is perceived prior to dimension of the infinitude of space, not 1st Jhāna.

This fits nicely with a very frequent formula of:

""With the complete transcending of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, (perceiving,) 'Infinite space,' he enters & remains in the dimension of the infinitude of space."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Alex123
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Alex123 »

Hi Reflection, all,
reflection wrote: As I've said before I'm no fan of pure textual analysis on such topics, but as far as I know there is no reference to "vipassana Jhanas" (whatever that means)
"Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions. - MN117

Please note what makes up noble right concentration.

"The first jhāna has five factors. There is the case where, in a monk who has attained the five-factored first jhāna, there occurs directed thought, evaluation, rapture, pleasure, & singleness of mind. It's in this way that the first jhāna has five factors." - MN43

It maybe possible that 5 Jhānic factors (or however many factors that particular Jhāna 1-4 may possess) of 1st Jhāna are directly relevant to 7 factors of the N8P. Or at least they occur based on samma-sati.



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With best wishes,

Alex
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Sylvester »

Ñāṇa wrote:Note how the phrase "known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear" also occurs in MN 111 Anupada Sutta which describes the clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occur (anupadadhammavipassanā):
  • Now Sāriputta’s clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occurred was this:

    Whatever phenomena there are in the first jhāna: directed thought, evaluation, joy, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, recognition, intention, mind, desire, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention; he analyzed these phenomena one by one as they occurred. Known to him they arose, known they were present, known they disappeared.
Hello Geoff

Could you pls furnish a reference to the translation which you used which rendered "vavatthitā" as "analysed"? I could not find it in any of the 4 translations I have access to. It looks like a bit of the ATI translation combined with the MLDB translation, but neither translation used "analysed". Or is this your translation?

Just a comment on reliance on one particular translation of MN 111 (ie the MLDB) which renders "tyāssa dhammā anupadavavatthitā honti" as "these states were defined by him one by one as they occured". I would point out again that "anupada" as an adverb predicates the vavattheti, and nowhere in the Pali does "as they occured" occur. Ven Nanamoli supplied the "as they occured", not on the basis of the Pali text, but on the basis of the Commentary to this sutta -
Anupadavavatthitā hontīti anupaṭipāṭiyā vavatthitā paricchinnā ñātā viditā honti.
In the Commentaries, that word "anupaṭipāṭiyā" is used in the context of "anupubba" (progressive), but anupaṭipāṭiyā is not a word that is found in the Canon, which leaves us to wonder if the translations of MN 111 in ATI and MLDB which are based on a Commentarial jargon is on the mark...
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Post by Sylvester »

Alex123 wrote:Dear Sylvester and all,
Sylvester wrote: And I would point out that all of these sutta definitions were given in relation to the rūpakhandha.
Where would you class the physical eye in the 5 Khandha scheme?
Where would you class "visual object" in the 5 Khandha scheme?

Both the physical eye and external object are material. The only material khandha is rūpakhandha.
I am sure nobody would class physical eye or external visual object as feeling, perception, volition or consciousness.
Dear Alex

I hope you will forgive my nit-picking, but how is that underlined statement relevant to the issue of what is the nature of rupa in rupakhandha, such that it can arise on mind-contact as outlined in MN 28?

I am not sure any of the salayatana can fit into the 5 khandha scheme. To me, MN 28 is suggesting that rupakhandha is neither the indriya nor ayatana, but what arises as a consequence of phassa.

Another sutta that I've remembered. MN137
"There is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity; and there is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness.

"And what is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity? There is equanimity with regard to forms, equanimity with regard to sounds...smells...tastes...tactile sensations [& ideas: this word appears in one of the recensions]. This is equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity.

"And what is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness? There is equanimity dependent on the dimension of the infinitude of space, equanimity dependent on the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... dependent on the dimension of nothingness... dependent on the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. This is equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness.

"By depending & relying on equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness, abandon & transcend equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity. Such is its abandoning, such its transcending.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Please note:
Equanimity dependent on singleness is dimension of the infinitude of space and higher! Not 1st Jhāna
One overcomes multiplicity when one reaches dimension of the infinitude of space, not 1st Jhāna.
5 Sense perception is perceived prior to dimension of the infinitude of space, not 1st Jhāna.

This fits nicely with a very frequent formula of:

""With the complete transcending of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, (perceiving,) 'Infinite space,' he enters & remains in the dimension of the infinitude of space."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I do not agree that equanimity dependant on singleness can be found only in the Infinite Space attainment. According to DN 15, the corresponding Jhana realms can be either with diversity of perception (nānattasaññino) or with singular perception (ekattasaññino). The 1st Jhana realm is one with singular perception, while the 2nd Jhana realm seems to be of diverse perception. The 3rd Jhana realm also seems to be of singular perception (on that occasion there is a perception of a refined truth of equanimity : DN 9). DN 15 does not mention the vehapphala devas of the 4th Jhana, so we cannot tell whether the perception therein (of a refined truth of neither pleasure nor pain : DN 9) is singular or diverse. DN 9 seems clear that the 3rd Jhana is an equanimous reaction to the sukha, and DN 15 suggests that this perception is singular.

As the ATI translation notes, at least one manuscript of MN 137 suggests that equanimity that is diversified may also be found in mental dhamma-s. While the singularity of perception in 1st Jhana is based on pitisukha born of seclusion, nothing is said about the equanimous perception in 4th Jhana and whether it is singular or diverse. This may explain MN 137's recommendation to pursue the Arupa attainments.
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