Changes to lay life

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Changes to lay life

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:25 am

I have heard that some monks before they ordained 'lived like monks' living a lay life. I would like to ask the Bhikkus here (and Bhikkunis as well), what changes to lay life would you suggest before getting ordained, in preparation?

With metta :anjali:

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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby daverupa » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:29 am

:popcorn:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:27 pm

Hi Daverupa,

All that popcorn..

How about practicing these things:?

modesty
contentment
seclusion
non-entanglement
arousing persistence
virtue
concentration
discernment
release
knowledge & vision of release
:smile:

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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:32 pm

Greetings RYB,

Having narrowed your list of potential respondees to the presently ordained, there may well be a lot of popcorn required to tide us over until there is a response.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:46 pm

Hi Retro,

Really? How about this practice:

Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes
:group:

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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:51 pm

Greetings RYB,

So when you say you're interested in hearing from Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis, you're also interested in hearing from the Buddha (by way of sutta), then that opens things up a bit more.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby bodom » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:04 am

While I am not ordained, I think following the 8 precepts full time would be a good start:

The Eight Precepts:

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Abrahmacariya veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
6. Vikalabhojana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon).
7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.
8. Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.


:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby ground » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:04 am

bodom wrote:While I am not ordained, I think following the 8 precepts full time would be a good start:

The Eight Precepts:
...


Thanks for directing my mind to the most appropriate response to the OP's question when it has been on the verge of being distracted in its monkey-like fashion by exactly this question.


Kind regards
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:36 pm

Thank you Bodom- your posts are often spot on. I wondered if there should be a thread here about what the Buddha said about being ordained, in the sutta pitaka- if someone else is interested in starting one, I will contribute.

Bodom, what do you think - nacca Gita vadita seems to about sensual pleasure- would it be enough to remove craving to these? Probably not..

With metta

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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby bodom » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:34 am

Bodom, what do you think - nacca Gita vadita seems to about sensual pleasure- would it be enough to remove craving to these? Probably not..


Hi Matheesha

To be honest and speak from experience, I don't know. I have never undertaken the eights precepts for longer than a day and night, and with my current life situation, probably wont be undertaking them anytime soon. I have to conclude though that following these precepts intently and for long amount's of time would significantly reduce desire for these objects of attachment, though not to the point of reaching Arahantship. So the question is, how much so? If the eight precepts were all that were needed to eradicate clinging and reach Nibanna, the Buddha wouldn't have added an additional 219 precepts :tongue:

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby ground » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:24 am

rowyourboat wrote: - nacca Gita vadita seems to about sensual pleasure- would it be enough to remove craving to these? Probably not..

It also enhances seclusion. I consider 3 and 8 to cover sensual pleasures too.

IMO since this craving needs to be abandoned anyway it does not make much sense to ask the question you are asking.
E.g. if I want to walk from where I am to location B which will take 10 steps then asking whether the first stept will be enough to reach B does not make much sense.

kind regards
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby mlswe » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:14 pm

what i can think of now:

if you have time off and want to travel, choose a monastary over the beach :)

try to keep the eight precepts as many days as possible and to reflect on renounciation even while keeping 5

minimize exposure to foolish and negligent people and maximise with wise and good

minimize superflous time and energy stealing activities to open up your days for meditation, contemplation and study


as i see it the extent of preparation is very dependant on how one has to make a living
Last edited by mlswe on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes to lay life

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:14 am

Hi mlswe, Thank you. - a breath of fresh air+great advice :bow:
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