Goenka technique

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
danieLion
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Sun May 29, 2011 1:03 am

Jhana4 wrote:
An American born Buddhist monk, Thanisaro Bhikku, published a book called "Wings To Awakening". You can find a free copy by Googling. The theme of the book is that the Buddha knew that his teachings would eventually get distorted and die out. The Buddha made several lists describing qualities a person could develop. The most famous of these lists is The 8 Fold Path. His theory was that if a person worked to develop all of the qualities on any of those lists the quest would eventually force them to rediscover and relearn his teachings.

In the preface to this book he calls the wings to awakening "bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma." Wikipedia has an entry about this. Is it accurate? The book is also mostly sutras. Is this a good place to start studying sutras?
Thank you.
Daniel

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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Jhana4 » Sun May 29, 2011 3:29 am

danieLion wrote:In the preface to this book he calls the wings to awakening "bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma." Wikipedia has an entry about this. Is it accurate? The book is also mostly sutras. Is this a good place to start studying sutras?


I think it is a good place to start to see what Buddhism is actually about versus what is portrayed as Buddhism in many popular books. My opinion is that a better anthology for starting to study the suttas would be "Word Of The Buddha" by Bhikku Bodhi, which should come after reading "The Wings To Awakening"
Last edited by Jhana4 on Sun May 29, 2011 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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mikenz66
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 29, 2011 3:55 am

I second Jhana4's recommendation (with a slight correction to the title:

In the Buddha's Words, An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon, Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1
You can read a detailed review and the first chapter there.

I've not seen a sutta collection that comes close to giving the breadth of the Buddha's teaching as Bhikkhu Bodhi's collection. Wings To Awakening is also excellent, but it is much more focussed on particular aspects of the teachings. And to me it reads more like a Thesis than an introduction. (Not a bad thing, just a different thing.).
You can read it on-line and as a PDF here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/

:anjali:
Mike

Jhana4
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Jhana4 » Sun May 29, 2011 4:09 am

"Wings To Awakening" is available in just about every kind of electronic format, for free, under the sun. I don't know if it is still true, but a very nice hard copy at one time could be obtained by writing away to Thanisarro Bhikkus monestary.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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mikenz66
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 29, 2011 4:33 am

Jhana4 wrote:"Wings To Awakening" is available in just about every kind of electronic format, for free, under the sun. I don't know if it is still true, but a very nice hard copy at one time could be obtained by writing away to Thanisarro Bhikkus monestary.

Probably still the case. I had a paper copy that I picked up somewhere, sometime, perhaps at a Monastery. Actually, I think I remember who I lent it to... Hmmmm..... And said person has one of my other books too... :thinking:

Mike

danieLion
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:56 am

Hi ALL,
Thanks for the great posts. So I read Wings to Awakening and just started In the Buddha's Words. These books are very different from other books I have read (Thich Nhat Hanh, Goldstein, Kornfield, Chogyam Trungpa, Upasika Kee, etc...) Bhikkhu Bodhi also talks about the bodhipakkiyadhamma and the Wiki site on it looks good to me too. From what little I know. How important is bodhipakkiyadhamma overall? Maybe I am looking to hard for a condensed Buddhism, but I like the way the concept seems to kind of streamline the Buddha's teachings.
Daniel

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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:00 am

Hi Daniel

How important is bodhipakkiyadhamma overall?

Depends on who you talk to. For me, its very important. For others - not so. Its a condensation of the requisites for enlightenment in 37 factors.
You may wish to check out a thread I started earlier this year on the bodhipakkiya dhammas. Also, check out Ledi Sayadaw's bodhipakkiya dhamma dipani (Manual of the 37 requisites of enlightenment). If you search for and find my earlier thead - you should find a link there to an online edition of the Sayadaw's Dipani.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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danieLion
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:13 am

Ben wrote:You may wish to check out a thread I started earlier this year on the bodhipakkiya dhammas.
I do wish. Had no search luck. Remember the title?
Thank You
Daniel

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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:21 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ancientbuddhism » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:54 pm

Jhana4 wrote:"Wings To Awakening" is available in just about every kind of electronic format, for free, under the sun. I don't know if it is still true, but a very nice hard copy at one time could be obtained by writing away to Thanisarro Bhikkus monestary.


How to order paper copies of Wings and other books from Wat Metta is mentioned on ATI here.They have been good about even sending a box of books to temples and centers for distribution.

P.S. Jhana4, If you order a box for the DC Vihara be sure to let Dhammasiri know these are for FREE distribution. :lol:
‘yaṃ kiñci dukkhaṃ uppajjamānaṃ uppajjati, sabbaṃ taṃ chandamūlakaṃ chandanidānaṃ. chando hi mūlaṃ dukkhassā’ti.’

“Whatever dukkha arises into existence, all arises rooted in chanda, chanda as its cause, chanda as the root of dukkha. – SN.42.11 Bhadrakasuttaṃ

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves

Jhana4
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:46 pm

Have you ordered hard copies of Wings To Awakening recently? Like I wrote, I'm wondering if they *still* send paper copies.

Venerable Dhammasiri is still very much himself, but I think he might have changed, at least somewhat. The monk who teaches meditation has been away traveling. The junior monk who lead the officiated meditations in his absence is now also away. Venerable Dhammasiri not only attended the evening meditation the other night, but he officiated it himself.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:36 pm

Jhana4 wrote:Have you ordered hard copies of Wings To Awakening recently? Like I wrote, I'm wondering if they *still* send paper copies.


ATI website is usually very current with things, so if the option is still mentioned there I would guess it is still good. I don't recall just how timely they were, but at temples I stay at in the States I usually have been the one ordering but it has been awhile. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I ever actually wrote regular-post to Wat Metta, I may have contacted John Bullitt through ATI (if that is still an option).

khantikhantikhanti
‘yaṃ kiñci dukkhaṃ uppajjamānaṃ uppajjati, sabbaṃ taṃ chandamūlakaṃ chandanidānaṃ. chando hi mūlaṃ dukkhassā’ti.’

“Whatever dukkha arises into existence, all arises rooted in chanda, chanda as its cause, chanda as the root of dukkha. – SN.42.11 Bhadrakasuttaṃ

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves

Featherlight
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Featherlight » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:37 pm

Having attended a couple 10 day courses with a completely bare perception (non religious, never interested in isms and only explored them till i got a firm sense of dogma). I later served a couple courses as well, which experience, by the way, is equally essential as sitting as for "why", one can only experience the answer to that question. However as my practice evolved also did my discomfort. A bit of that feeling like being in a space you dont belong in after a while. Something whitin was stretching and i was insisting on staying contracted. Vipassana as i experienced it is a self revelatory technique. As one sheds... Or becomes aware... So does the technique engage one. After all observing sensation, particularely in initial stages is still done very much with the participation of the conscious mind, despite what is being theoretically presented at the course. Not that onservation is a characteristic solely specific to this layer but mostly due to the same habbit of engaging the superficial mind that makes meditation such an ordeal for most in initial stages. As the observer is revealed, layer by layer, as the conscious is mastered, the technique its self opens to a new form or non-form for more appropriate expression. I will avoid ellaborating where vipassana is for me, for the same reason talking about the experiences is discouraged in general (birthing expectations/desires is a great obstacle; i've experienced it my self whem one good friend and fellow meditator presented me with a blissful experience of a sudden "heart opening" that created much frustration for a me that was still wallowing in physical pain at that time and never since experiences the then described very intimate experience... However gained interesting insight regarding my appearent incapacity to rejoyce in my brothers and sisters success... As the method is not linear, every experience is after all "right" and useful). At a 10 day corse if i well recall, old students are actually gently encouraged to foow their experience rather then rigidly follow rules as beginners are for a good reason required to do.
As for why and how does observing sensation burn away or undo or remove anything at all... It doesent really as the expectation of an outcome is in a sense contrary to the technique its self. When we become aware of a particular thing, the level of our awareness equates with the level of our mastery. Observing bodily sensation we initially will mostly take note of familiar feelings and some unfamiliar ones, subtler ones might appear as a lack there of. Yet as the awareness is sharpened sensations become obvious for which we might not have a name or the point of reference, if any, is vague. As we incorporate these sensations into our awareness, in a progressive fashion as we practice we master not only the sensation but all of its appendages hence reactivity becomes less and less authomatic and much more volitional. In a sense we are de-victimized from the respective mind body unit. So, yep, remain alert, remain attemptive, do your practice dilligently and persistently and all is comming.
As for wether mr Goenka's format of this technique is for everyone... Yeas and No. The Buddhist infusion of the technique might offend some meditators even though it is masterfully mild it still reveals a bit of the teacher's attachent perhaps to his religious/cultural background and i state this with all respect for someone who I gratefully view as my Great Teacher. We are all walkers on the same path. Some atumble around in the bushes, some walk in the light, some take dead end twist and turna from which they must return and some walk under the protection of the shade. In my personal experience perhaps the "only" bizarrery of this technique as presented by mr Goenka, the one thing that scratches my ear is the "this is the only way"... Which might be true or not true it just seams like such anlimiting statent and if i knew no better it would almost sound mildly arrogant to say that one can only master grough a 10 day Vipassana course passed down trough U Bha Kin as well as the constant rhetoric about a particular embodiment of the Buddha (out of its i finite expressions) as the source of this inner woking that seams like an easy onset for a religion specially in our society already deeply conditioned towards religious thinking. Yet all this is dust in the wind that dedicated practice takes care of. I take the usefull and humbly release what does not serve. It is wonderful to be able to practice in silence and comfort for 10, 20 etc days donation based and that is a huuuge contribution made possible by Mr.Goenka and each meditator after all. Let your personal i sight take care of the rest. May all ne happy! Be free! And may the True path be revealed to all as they are ready.


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