Practical Vipassana

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.
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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:A cat hunting a mouse is not going have a quality of mind that is conducive to awakening.

Well you simply cannot know since you are not a cat and the Buddha's teachings that we know were not addressed to cats.

Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:29 am

Greetings Ming,
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:A cat hunting a mouse is not going have a quality of mind that is conducive to awakening.

Well you simply cannot know since you are not a cat and the Buddha's teachings that we know were not addressed to cats.

Kind regards


I respectfully disagree. What do you imagine might be the state of mind of an animal hunting another animal?
kind regards

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saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:42 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:A cat hunting a mouse is not going have a quality of mind that is conducive to awakening.

Well you simply cannot know since you are not a cat and the Buddha's teachings that we know were not addressed to cats.

Kind regards
But he did talk about the uniqueness of human birth as a platform for awakening compared to other realms of existence, including animals. My point stands. Also, you really have not addressed my point, though you have tried to dodge it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:47 am

Ben wrote:Greetings Ming,
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:A cat hunting a mouse is not going have a quality of mind that is conducive to awakening.

Well you simply cannot know since you are not a cat and the Buddha's teachings that we know were not addressed to cats.

Kind regards


I respectfully disagree. What do you imagine might be the state of mind of an animal hunting another animal?
kind regards

Ben


Ben


does your question refer to the state while hunting or any other time?
I would like to remind of Angulimala in this context.

Please note that I do not expect an answer because my question is a rethorical question.


Regardless of what your question refers to. I find it rather pointless to imagine or impute anything with reference to a cat's mind or quality of attention. I do not know and nobody else can know. Why should I imagine something?


Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:52 am

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:A cat hunting a mouse is not going have a quality of mind that is conducive to awakening.

Well you simply cannot know since you are not a cat and the Buddha's teachings that we know were not addressed to cats.

Kind regards
But he did talk about the uniqueness of human birth as a platform for awakening compared to other realms of existence, including animals.

This is no evidence for a cat's quality of attention.

tiltbillings wrote:Also, you really have not addressed my point, though you have tried to dodge it.

What point? I feel I replied to everything consistently although it may not be to your satisfaction.


Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:54 am

TMingyur wrote:does your question refer to the state while hunting or any other time?
I would like to remind of Angulimala in this context.
So, Angulimala had positive, wholesome mental factors at play when he was stalking and killing his prey?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:56 am

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:does your question refer to the state while hunting or any other time?
I would like to remind of Angulimala in this context.
So, Angulimala had positive, wholesome mental factors at play when he was stalking and killing his prey?


Since I am human and Angulimala is supposed to have been human too I am inclined to answer in the negative.

Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:58 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:But the Buddha did talk about the uniqueness of human birth as a platform for awakening compared to other realms of existence, including animals.

This is no evidence for a cat's quality of attention.
Now, you are again doing a two-step side-step dance to avoid the question.

tiltbillings wrote:Also, you really have not addressed my point, though you have tried to dodge it.

What point? I feel I replied to everything consistently although it may not be to your satisfaction.
You have consistently dodged the questions and the points raised, answering nothing.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:02 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:does your question refer to the state while hunting or any other time?
I would like to remind of Angulimala in this context.
So, Angulimala had positive, wholesome mental factors at play when he was stalking and killing his prey?


Since I am human and Angulimala is supposed to have been human too I am inclined to answer in the negative.

Kind regards
There is no reason to assume a cat caught in the hunt is any different, in general, from a human caught up in the hunt. And since humans are in a generally unique position in terms of awakening according to the Buddha's teachings, awakened qualities of mind are not something kammically available to a cat and certainly not when hunting and killing a mouse.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:03 am

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:But the Buddha did talk about the uniqueness of human birth as a platform for awakening compared to other realms of existence, including animals.

This is no evidence for a cat's quality of attention.
Now, you are again doing a two-step side-step dance to avoid the question.

No I just stick to the original topic of our conversation.


tiltbillings wrote:Also, you really have not addressed my point, though you have tried to dodge it.

What point? I feel I replied to everything consistently although it may not be to your satisfaction.
You have consistently dodged the questions and the points raised, answering nothing.[/quote]
You may insist to know what you cannot know and I say that you cannot know what is inaccessible for you.
We may leave it at that.

Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:05 am

tiltbillings wrote:There is no reason to assume a cat caught in the hunt is any different, in general, from a human caught up in the hunt.

This is just your original assertion. Still you cannot know.


Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby ground » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:10 am

The thread is titled "practical vipassana".

"practical vipassana" may foster the capacity to discern "fabrication" and "knowing". So I am going to practice this vipassana in order to learn to discern what I know about cats and what I fabricate about cats.


Kind regards

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:13 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:There is no reason to assume a cat caught in the hunt is any different, in general, from a human caught up in the hunt.

This is just your original assertion. Still you cannot know.
I can reasonably be inclined to answer that I can. Cats are not so different from humans the certains states of mind as acted out in their are not transparent to be understood in the same way you claim:

"Since I am human and Angulimala is supposed to have been human too I am inclined to answer in the negative."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:14 am

TMingyur wrote:The thread is titled "practical vipassana".

"practical vipassana" may foster the capacity to discern "fabrication" and "knowing". So I am going to practice this vipassana in order to learn to discern what I know about cats and what I fabricate about cats.


Kind regards
Cute, but, alas, still a dodge.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Practical Vipassana

Postby lonewolf » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:17 pm

Thank you for posting this. Bhante Gunaratana has a way with words, great teacher, makes it seem so straightforward too.


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