question about attaining jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Cessation
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question about attaining jhana

Post by Cessation »

Is it possible to attain jhana while meditating while living at home with family around? Because in the suttas it says you need to be secluded from sensual pleasures.
Say like I wanted to just go to work then come home and meditate and not use any entertainment.
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tiltbillings
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by tiltbillings »

Cessation wrote:Is it possible to attain jhana while meditating while living at home with family around? Because in the suttas it says you need to be secluded from sensual pleasures.
Say like I wanted to just go to work then come home and meditate and not use any entertainment.
Sure; however, you illustrate one of the major problems with with this jhana focus.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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bodom
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by bodom »

I highly recommend checking out Bhante Gunaratana's book Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English.

It can be read online in part here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=UGzTsK ... ks_s&cad=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And purchased here:
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In this book Bhante G says that yes it is possible for meditators to reach jhana while living the household life provided certain conditions are met first; maintaining the precepts, practicing contentment, sense restraint and meditating AT LEAST two hours daily. Hope this helps get you started.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Cessation
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Cessation »

Thanks for the replies! That is very encouraging. Looks like I have a bit of prep-work to do but at least it's a start.
:anjali:
chownah
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by chownah »

At one point in my life I became the caretaker of the community facility for a shared housing cooperative and when I moved in I started my daily meditation routine....Sat AM I started my meditation when the community kids filled the room next to mine and started watching saturday morning cartoons...loud volume of course....there were no other TV's in the community so this was their only place to watch. I persevered and after a few weeks I found that I could meditate even with the kids' activities.....but I was fairly experienced in meditation and don't know how a beginner would have faired.
chownah
daverupa
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by daverupa »

A simple yet ardent anapanasati practice leads to jhana, and is a better thing to focus on.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
DammaChakku
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by DammaChakku »

Cessation wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:47 pm Is it possible to attain jhana while meditating while living at home with family around? Because in the suttas it says you need to be secluded from sensual pleasures.
Say like I wanted to just go to work then come home and meditate and not use any entertainment.
I don’t think that sutras saying that you got to secluded from sensual pleasure. But certainly you need to be content ( being satisfied with whatever you have) If your mind is tamed correctly, you can have a good happy family life and experience all the Jhanas. I am speaking from my experience.

I go to work and have a family and at the same time I managed to reach several Jhanas.


DammaChakku
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
Tihsllub
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Tihsllub »

DammaChakku wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:37 pm I don’t think that sutras saying that you got to secluded from sensual pleasure.
But they do.
DammaChakku wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:37 pmI go to work and have a family and at the same time I managed to reach several Jhanas.
I sounds like you are overestimating your fondlings/experiments with meditation.
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Pondera
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Pondera »

I’ve read his description and it sounds like he’s either there or pretty close. Anyone who starts with metta as their object of meditation and experiences rapture and bliss on account of that sounds like they’re really experiencing something of spiritual worth. As he or she (or they) have said, they don’t compare themselves to the experts. I think said person is either there or on their way there.

For the record. I’m NOT there.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
DammaChakku
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by DammaChakku »

I sounds like you are overestimating your fondlings/experiments with meditation.
[/quote]

Hmm.. If you feel that way, let it be… I am fine with that. That doesn’t change anything.
I know there is a huge amount of wrong information circulating around. It is really hard for anyone to distinguish the correct information from the wrong. I don’t blame you.

With Metta

DammaChakku
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
DammaChakku
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by DammaChakku »

I wrote below to another thread. I hope this will help anyone.

“ This concept is mostly misunderstood. If you are prepared to listen to me, please read and understand what I am talking about. I really do know what I am talking about.

Basically, anyone who is below the Anagami ( Non returner status ) cannot stay away from sensual desire. If you suppress too much of it and your body is asking for it, you wouldn’t go too far.
However, if you seclude yourself and you can settle your desire level to a manageable level, it will give you a greater chance to progress in your meditation.

All you need to do is to bring your mind into equilibrium. When it is balanced, your desired level stays fulfilled and calm. Your input will be balanced out with requirements requested from inside. This state will keep your 5 hiderencaes unagitated.

As long as the demand is supplied, hiderances wouldn’t bother you too much. Then it will allow you to settle down in your meditation.

What you should not do is Not to bring in new demands. Therefore, staying away from new stimulations is a must. That is why you should not engage with other activities (parties, entertainments etc.) which arouse your desires further.

According to your argument, no Deva or heavenly beings can achieve anything. Because they fulfill their sensual desires all the time.”
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
Tihsllub
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Tihsllub »

DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:58 pm I know there is a huge amount of wrong information circulating around.
Yes, your posts here are quite voluminous and increasingly so as you attempt to defend your tenuous position.
DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm Basically, anyone who is below the Anagami ( Non returner status ) cannot stay away from sensual desire
The definition of a once-returner is significant reduction in greed, hatred & delusion:
In this Saṅgha there are mendicants who, with the ending of three fetters, and the weakening (parikkhaya) of greed, hate, and delusion, are once-returners.

Santi, bhikkhave, bhikkhū imasmiṁ bhikkhusaṅghe tiṇṇaṁ saṁyojanānaṁ parikkhayā rāgadosamohānaṁ tanuttā sakadāgāmino

MN 22; MN 118
In AN 6.16, a stream-enterer wife and her husband were celibate for 16 years:
Householder, you might think: ‘When I’ve gone, the housewife Nakula’s mother will take another husband.’ But you should not see it like this. Both you and I know that we have remained celibate (brahmacariyaṁ) while at home for the past sixteen years.

AN 6.16
In AN 10.75, Purāṇa was a celibate non-returner.

In conclusion, AN 3.86 says a stream-enterer & once-returner have limited concentration and have not fulfilled jhana. :smile:
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Goofaholix
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Goofaholix »

Secluded from sensual pleasures is more to do with having a mind that doesn't react or crave them rather than being in an environment without anything that can cause temptation. The latter certainly helps but it is possible to have the former without the latter.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
DammaChakku
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by DammaChakku »

Goofaholix wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:29 am Secluded from sensual pleasures is more to do with having a mind that doesn't react or crave them rather than being in an environment without anything that can cause temptation. The latter certainly helps but it is possible to have the former without the latter.
Yes, I can completely agree with you. In fact, my personal experience is the best proof I have.
With Metta :heart:

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Gwi II
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Re: question about attaining jhana

Post by Gwi II »

Cessation wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:47 pm Is it possible to attain jhana while meditating while living at home with family around? Because in the suttas it says you need to be secluded from sensual pleasures.
Say like I wanted to just go to work then come home and meditate and not use any entertainment.
If someone wants a jhāna, but lazy to get up early
(before the third watch ends) and lazy to fast (regularly),
don't get your hopes up about having jhāna (again, don't get
your hopes up).

In the tradition of the Javanese tribe (tribe in Indonesia),
the attainment of meditation will be successful if the stomach
is not full of food (routine fasting). I'm not a Javanese.
:meditate:
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
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