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Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy? - Dhamma Wheel

Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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VictoryInTruth
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Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby VictoryInTruth » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:23 pm

Does all matter (rupa) have a denser vibrational form of energy? When reading about the aggregates of which matter is the first aggregate it states that matter consists of solidity, fluidity, heat or temperature and motion or vibration.

Is this vibrational quality of matter a denser form of energy? Does everything in the universe(s) consist of this vibrational energy...even an object such as a rock but on a denser level?

Thank you for your patience with my beginner questions.

:anjali:

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:08 pm

Greetings,

Not being an altogether simple question to answer, I'm going to move this from Discovering Theravada to the Meditation section for you.

(In case you're interested, the reason I decided to redirect to the Meditation forum is because I believe the question is best answered in terms of what you observe, analyse and experience... rather than being regarded as an objective scientific or ontological proposition. If others disagree we can move it elsewhere.)

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Ben
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Greetings VictoryInTruth

From a non-scientist's point of view...
All matter consists of particles which are in a constant state of flux and movement. This is the vibrational characteristic of matter/rupa.
If you wish to examine the Elements in more detail, I suggest you read Ledi Sayadaw's Vipassana Dipani (Manual of Insight) but its not a work intended for beginners.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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daverupa
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby daverupa » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:19 am

The point, surely, must be that no matter what description is given for the fundamental parts of nature, that same description applies to anything we might like to call Ours, and therefore, a Buddhist knows that whatever other characteristics it has, it has three in particular, and the only way to see those for oneself is to do anapanasati rather than speculate as to other characteristics.

This response may not be appropriate if the thread is moved to another category.

:heart:

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mikenz66
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 am


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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:38 pm

The 'vibrational quality' that you mention is nothing but consciousness arising and passing away at great rapidity. You could argue via quantum physics that everything including consciousness is energy.

The qualities of a perception of form (rupasanna) such as hardness, heat etc can be detected in different ways in the different sense bases. It is important to keep in mind that the Buddha did NOT declare an existing world (kaccayanagotta sutta). He only saw experience arising due to the existence of ignorance. Rupa (or should I say the experience of rupa) should be seen in this light.

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icyteru
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby icyteru » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:28 pm

Yes. Even rock has electron that always moving around proton.
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:15 am


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Ben
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:31 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

haplo09
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby haplo09 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:54 am

The short answer, maybe yes.
The best example i can think of is pair production.

alan
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby alan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:10 am

I really like Mike's response.
Lets make sure we keep this within an experiential domain. Theoretical constructs are not useful in this situation.

rowyourboat
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:26 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

alan
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby alan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:53 am

I'm sorry to tell you this, but what you are saying is completely pointless. And it has nothing to do with Buddhism.
Plus, you are claiming something that has not been proven. I don't distrust science: I do distrust those who claim a new understanding based on a faulty understanding of the real meaning of science.

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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:01 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:14 am


Mawkish1983
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:08 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:17 pm

Mawkish, Mike- do you mind if I pm you both?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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mikenz66
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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:38 am

Hi RYB,

Feel free to PM me. However, I've stated my position many times that almost all these discussions of quantum mechanics and Buddhism and consciousness appear to me to be written by people who do not understand one or the other, or do not understand either. I don't want to sound dismissive, but I find that discussing these issues with physics graduates is not easy, so discussing them with someone who does not have at least that background is extremely difficult.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby Freawaru » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:06 am


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Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:14 am



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