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Did anyone here attain jhana? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Did anyone here attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Reductor
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Reductor » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:21 am

Hey all.

I agree that every practitoner should seek reputable instruction, and discuss their experiences with a teacher wherever possible.

However, I do not think the theravada community is best served by staying silent on issues of attainment. This long standing silence makes errant claims more frequent, and the consequences further reaching, than they would be otherwise (or so I suspect).

On the net there are forums set up where they proclaim attainment and enlightenment regularly, appropriating buddhist terms and concepts while removing the context in which they were orignally placed. There is emotional satisfaction and conceit satisfaction, and just enough wisdom to make it all very alluring. It is delivered directly to a person's computer, where they lap it up with relish.

Yet there is little coming from the online theravada community which might counter act this. There is a reluctance to discuss the fruits of traditonal practice and views in a way which would connect with a seeker of a certain sort. Claims are mostly met with suspicion, and the better responses are text based. Little is said by anyone that might betray the actual depth of experience among the theravada practitoners. And to me this lack seems to be a loss.

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daverupa
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby daverupa » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:21 am

It shouldn't be a matter of "having the experience", it should be a matter of becoming enthused by seeing the truth of the Dhamma. Perhaps if more stress was placed on the unwholesome consequences of deluding oneself, it would serve to motivate the sincere.

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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:59 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Vepacitta
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Vepacitta » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:34 pm

Nana, Tilt and Ben all have good thoughts here.

Sometimes it is difficult when one doesn't have a meditation teacher. When Nana first started giving information on the Jhanas it was incredibly helpful to me - it gave me some sort of benchmark - which I hadn't before. Perhaps, instead of speaking in terms of attainments - if these things are discussed - they should only be in terms of what the experience was like and what that may or may not signify.

I for one, certainly wouldn't claim attainments for myself or proclaim for another - but discussions about the meditative process that I've had here (or read in other threads) were most helpful.

It all has to be given and taken in the right spirit.

From the High Mahdi here on Mt. Meru (Just Kidding!)

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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BuddhaKurt
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby BuddhaKurt » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:27 pm

Call me an odd ball, but I have nothing to hide. I hope I don't offend anyone. I have attained the various levels of jhana and there is no better way to understand the Buddha's teachings. Put your blind faith in it at first which will lead to the truth.

Have a happy day!

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daverupa
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby daverupa » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:06 am


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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:11 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

2600htz
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby 2600htz » Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:54 am


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Goedert
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Goedert » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:02 am

When I was born I couldn't walk. Now I can, I learned it by observing other people doing it and strengthening my body members step by step.

Mundane jhanas can be cultivated and mastered. Supramundane jhanas can't be cultivated and mastered, you just abide in them.

Just some reflections.

You can only attain what is unattainable, in this case the supramundane. Rest of the things are impermanent phenomena, but still one can gain mastery over them.

alan
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby alan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:38 am

Hi Ben. Agree with most of what you say, but I don't get the fruit simile. It doesn't seem to follow that people of high attainment will always be humble. And should we take humbleness as a sign of high awareness? That seems to create its own problems.

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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:52 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby alan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:17 am

Agreed. But "humbleness" in and of itself is often confused with progress. I've met more than a few "humble" people who put on that facade. Not you of course!
I like the fact that you changed the words to humility and gratitude. There is a real difference.
I believe that words matter. Proper words influence perceptions for the better. Improper words create all kinds of problems.

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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:26 am

I understand exactly where you are coming from Alan.
Yes, conceit is such an insidious problem.
And I'm happy that greater clarification on my part you can understand my position as well!
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Freawaru
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Freawaru » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:29 pm


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:30 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:32 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:33 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:52 am

Last edited by Sanghamitta on Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Ytrog
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ytrog » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:56 am

I agree that it is dangerous to talk about one's own attainments. Bhikkus are forbidden to discuss that towards lay people even and for good reasons.

What I don't agree with, however is the argument that it should only be discussed privately with one's teacher and not online. Many people here come to a forum like this for the very reason they don't have acces to a teacher (in person) and for discussing one's personal experiences we even have a special sub-forum.

I think it is ok for people who don't have acces to teachers to describe their personal experiences, so they can get feedback and find out what happened. Just don't claim anything, just describe.

IMHO this forum was founded to be the teacher for those who don't have acces to one in any other way. We are lucky to have many experienced meditators here, some even bhikkus, who can help all the others (like me ;)) here.

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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:02 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..


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