Did anyone here attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:03 am


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:05 am

I have never been convinced of a single persons online claims to any Jnanic states. Ever.

Interestingly I have never encountered such claims offline.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ytrog » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:43 am


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Ben
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ben » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:37 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:37 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Ytrog » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:38 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:29 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Aloka » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:02 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:17 am

Greetings,

I find anyone's "claims" of samma samadhi, as no more thrilling than proficiency in any of the other seven aspects of the Noble Eightfold Path.

If you've got it, good for you... but claim alone makes no difference in how I perceive people and what they say. If anything, it causes me to lose respect for them if their speech and deeds are not commensurate with what attainment they're claiming... so they're really just setting higher expectations for themselves to achieve (which is risky business if the claim is false or deluded).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:56 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:03 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:54 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Nyana » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:00 pm


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:06 pm

Quite so Tilt. The point is less about whether it is possible to attain them ( and I have my doubts for most people in most non retreat situations ) as about the inadvisability of claiming some kind of permanent status.
( And yes some people do. On this very forum. )

Just a year or so back there was a flurry of posts from a member claiming to access Jnana states with ease.
As I recall the same member then fell out with just about everybody and the forum cat before disappearing.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:51 pm

After considering this issue again and reflecting on the good points from all above, I think there may a "middle way" point on this issue.

The one extreme of not discussing jhana at all, not discussing any experiences, encounters with teachers, etc. can be unproductive because it can give it more of a mystique than is necessary and make it seem more an impossibility.

The other extreme of boasting about attainments for the purpose of credentials, such as mentioning how "easy" it is to get into any of the jhanas or talking about one's noble status, etc., only invites ridicule and scorn.

A "middle way" could be to discuss different aspects of the jhanas from the Suttas and with only brief mentions of some experiences (if one really has any) which should only be for the purpose of encouraging others to practice, not for any self-aggrandizement.

An example, can be the brief mention by Tilt above or other similar experiences during retreats, under the guidance of a respected teacher, etc. for the purpose of encouraging others on the Path and so that they may practice more diligently or embark on retreats.
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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Reductor » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:15 pm

Hi Ben, all.

Good post David.

I do not think it is the discussion that causes trouble, but the manner that discussion takes. It is this manner that steals the focus from how to practice and places it on what to 'attain'.

This difference does seems esepcially evident in discussion of jhana versus discussion of ariyaphala. Jhana is an element of practice, ariyaphala is the result of practice.

However, jhana is regarded very much as maggaphala today, similar to ariyaphala, i.e., as supramumdane and therefore beyond the keen of ordinary minds and circumstance. Thus this makes it a desirable thing for some to 'attain' and then to 'claim'. This is how they wish to focus on it.

This treatment of jhana is not present in the suttas, however. There jhana is a means to an end and is taken for granted as both a practice and a tool. It wasn't rarified, and we should avoid rarifying it even today.

So what the rest of us should do is focus on jhana as an element of the path that can and should be cultivated. Stop taking such a reactionary approach to claimers, which only jusifies their assertion of special status while obscuring the issue for the rest of us.

Edit: added odds and ends. Fixed some grammer also.

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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Hi All,

Reason for disclosing attainments (assuming that they are not impossible, then some on this very forum- heaven forbid- can be assumed to have attained them through correct practice):
1) To help another with their practice
2) to help+ out of conceit
3) merely out of conceit
4) to help+ material reward
5) purely material reward
6) plain untruths -for whatever reason

Reasons for disbelieving statements of attainments
1) wrong view that attainments are not possible (see mundane right view -mahacattasarika sutta/MN)
2) wrong view that we are qualified to judge their veracity on line, only with little aquaintance
3) Because we feel defensive about our own practice
4) because we genuinely care about people being mislead
5) it doesn't fall in line with the dhamma

Would it be wrong to say 'it can be done- just don't expect proof'?

Would it be wrong to expect no reward or praise or acceptance for such statements- perhaps only a 'it maybe so'... and verify them in line with the dhamma, and through your own practice ultimately?

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:37 pm

Wouldnt it be a lot simpler to keep such things between ourselves and our teacher/s as has already been suggested ?

This is not like sharing tips and hints for practice, as in the Vipassana or Metta Bhavana ...this is about mind states that are not accessible to or verifiable by a written description anyway.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Nyana » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:37 am


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Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?

Postby Nyana » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:40 am



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