Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by tiltbillings »

Anyone can go to heaven, just be good, but the real work is more than that, which is what seems to the point of the website.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Salmon,
salmon wrote:I do not understand why people feel that this website (justbegood) is bad for Buddhism?
I do not think anyone has said it is.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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genkaku
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by genkaku »

There are a hundred confusions that can arise out of notions like "heaven" and "being good." Likewise, some pretty good clarity and kindness may be born.

My own take is that those who call themselves Buddhists need to stop cringing when others mention "God" and "heaven" and "hell" and other notions that do not seem to accord with their own views and practices.

As Buddhists, I think we all need to get it straight: We too believe in heaven and hell and God and good and evil. We too strive for something else. We too make errors of thought, word and deed. No kidding. How did any of us begin our practice? Wasn't it with belief and hope? And isn't the world of "being good" and "heaven" and "hell" basically a way of expressing belief and hope? And didn't we too, at one time or another, become aware of what nitwits we could be? True, our nitwit-dom may not have led to a series of Crusades or shoving some "intelligent design" down school children's throats, but let's not pretend that what we have side-stepped makes us any the less nitwits. Our temples and texts and holy writ are every bit as capable of leading people -- people who suffer -- down a misguided path.

What saves Buddhists from their own nitwit-dom -- assuming they consent to practice -- is the injunction/imperative not to stop practicing, not to get caught up in the trickery of "goodness" or "heaven" or "hell" or "enlightenment" or "compassion" or "emptiness" or whatever. We are fortunate. Others -- some of them Buddhists -- may not be so fortunate. People may work day and night to explain why and how this happens (let's have another 'karma' discussion :)), but the important part is that it does happen.

Within this framework -- assuming it is true -- it is not enough to play the humble game ... "Ah yes, I too can be a nitwit!" And it is not enough to play the bright-light game ... "Ah, how fortunate I am to have found this upright and correct path!" The only thing that is enough is to persist in an attentive and responsible practice.

As Gautama is alleged to have said, "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern."

Nitwit or sage ... what other choice is there?
thornbush
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by thornbush »

genkaku wrote:Nitwit or sage ... what other choice is there?
The average and reasonably fool proof joe/jane in the street? :rolleye:
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LuzdelaLuna
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by LuzdelaLuna »

Image

I identifiy with Mr. Natural. I don't qualify for heaven, having been so bad in my life and I continue to do bad things....and good things....and just plain ol' things....

:tongue:
If you can't find the truth right in front of you, where do you expect to find it? - Dogen

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

As Buddhists, I think we all need to get it straight: We too believe in heaven and hell and God and good and evil. We too strive for something else.

True but it depends on how one views them, some see them as real places after death and some view them as mind states and metaphors etc

This differs from most other religions views about heaven and hell etc as they see them as real places


Metta
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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genkaku
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by genkaku »

True but it depends on how one views them,
Right. It all depends on

Me.
kennycat
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by kennycat »

Hi all

I just happened to bump into this thread and this is my first post. :anjali:

Has anyone seen the sheer volume and type of feedback generated from people all over the world to the 'Just Be Good' website? http://www.justbegood.net/Comments.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps the results of the approach taken by the website to promote the Dhamma speak for themselves. :smile:
nathan
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by nathan »

Some will say Diamond Shreddies (trademark Post Cereal) are merely a state of mind (no more than surreal), others will insist that they have the same effects as the 'genuine' square shreddies do. Others say that the shreddies, formerly considered square are merely mythical or metaphorical and that now we glimpse the true diamond that was hidden within all along. Perhaps some will actually sort it out for themselves via appropriate practices in the lunch rooms and rest rooms at break times, of course no one is going to consider any of their input decisive either are they?
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings


The site seems quite good, good introduction to Buddhism but it does seem to go into speculation to much talking about rebirth after death, planes of existence and so on which are in their very nature speculation but as it seems to be an introduction only to Buddhism i suppose they have their place there


The aiming for heaven bit i wouldnt agree with but it depends on the audience i suppose


Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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kc2dpt
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by kc2dpt »

clw_uk wrote:
As Buddhists, I think we all need to get it straight: We too believe in heaven and hell and God and good and evil. We too strive for something else.
True but it depends on how one views them, some see them as real places after death and some view them as mind states and metaphors etc

This differs from most other religions views about heaven and hell etc as they see them as real places
This seems to me a silly thing to say. Just as in Buddhism there are individuals who depart from the mainstream teachings of heaven and hell as real places, in every other religion there are also individuals who similarly depart from the mainstream teachings. Buddhism teaches of literal heavens and hells, Christianity teaches of literal heavens and hells, and I have met plenty of Buddhists and Christians who personally regard these teachings as metaphorical.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

Peter wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
As Buddhists, I think we all need to get it straight: We too believe in heaven and hell and God and good and evil. We too strive for something else.
True but it depends on how one views them, some see them as real places after death and some view them as mind states and metaphors etc

This differs from most other religions views about heaven and hell etc as they see them as real places
This seems to me a silly thing to say. Just as in Buddhism there are individuals who depart from the mainstream teachings of heaven and hell as real places, in every other religion there are also individuals who similarly depart from the mainstream teachings. Buddhism teaches of literal heavens and hells, Christianity teaches of literal heavens and hells, and I have met plenty of Buddhists and Christians who personally regard these teachings as metaphorical.

Of course there are christians who consider heaven and hell and the like metaphorical, but they are considerably less in number than those who take them as real, there will always be slight exceptions
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Lazy_eye
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Lazy_eye »

If a Buddhist believes in literal rebirth, doesn't that imply the planes of existence are real destinations? Likewise, if one chooses to regard the latter as "metaphors" or "mind states", wouldn't that logically require seeing rebirth as metaphorical too?

Otherwise we have rebirth without a (literal) destination to be reborn into. The pegs don't quite line up.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

Lazy_eye wrote:If a Buddhist believes in literal rebirth, doesn't that imply the planes of existence are real destinations? Likewise, if one chooses to regard the latter as "metaphors" or "mind states", wouldn't that logically require seeing rebirth as metaphorical too?

Otherwise we have rebirth without a (literal) destination to be reborn into. The pegs don't quite line up.

If they hold a view of rebirth after death then yes of course one will see them as real places


Holding them as refering to psychological states that are entered into every day doesnt mean rebirth is a "metaphor" since this means rebirth happens everyday, this rebirth is very real and directly observable so its not speculating on what happens after death which the other rebirth view does (unless one can have insight into it)


Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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DNS
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by DNS »

retrofuturist wrote: Is promoting heavenly realms as a future destination a good or bad way to promote the Dhamma in the 21st century?
I think it is a good way for many people, but not all. Those more oriented toward faith and a better rebirth rather than "loftier" goals of nibbana, scholarly studies of the Suttas, Abhidhamma, etc.
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