Buddhayana

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Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:04 pm

came across this a little while ago on a link in another thread.

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Buddhayana

I am unsure of this type of development but what about everyone else?
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:54 pm

Greetings Manapa,

As far as I can tell, Buddhayana simply means you're a follower of the Buddha and aren't inclined to lock yourself into the doctrinal positions of the various schools... a non (or multi?) denominational Buddhist. The problem with Buddhayana tends to be the supersessionism inherent within Mahayana and Vajrayana, rendering the Theravada teachings as of lesser importance.

Buddhayana should not be confused with Buddhavacana (word of the Buddha), which is an attempt to use whatever means are at one's disposal, to find out what the Buddha actually taught and what he didn't... and follow only that which he taught! I consider this to be a legitimate approach to the Dhamma, but you need to be honest with yourself and have to agenda to push. Some people often use a Buddhayana style analysis to push their own pet theories.

As traditions/approaches/schools, both of the above are reasonably new and informal in their structure.

Metta,
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Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:21 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Manapa,

As far as I can tell, Buddhayana simply means you're a follower of the Buddha and aren't inclined to lock yourself into the doctrinal positions of the various schools... a non (or multi?) denominational Buddhist. The problem with Buddhayana tends to be the supersessionism inherent within Mahayana and Vajrayana, rendering the Theravada teachings as of lesser importance.


Hi retro
from what I can tell it just seams like another FWBO.
when I done a search for this when I came across this all the links were for Ajahn Chah? which I thought strange.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:44 am

its from that brokenbuddha book. its the worst part of the whole book that i kept talking about in the other thread
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:29 am

jcsuperstar wrote:its from that brokenbuddha book. its the worst part of the whole book that i kept talking about in the other thread


which thread?

I came across this in a thread about something else completely and I don't think this was talked about? I think it was The Dhamma who started the thread I came across this in?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:42 pm

that unfair critisism thread
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:54 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:that unfair critisism thread


I don't think that is the same thread but I will have a look for it in a min, I will know it when I see the op anyway.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:03 pm

I don't see any mention of Buddhayana in the unfair criticism thread but the thread where I came across it was viewtopic.php?f=16&t=729 the first link in the OP
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:41 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:its from that brokenbuddha book. its the worst part of the whole book that i kept talking about in the other thread

Hi jc,

What do you not like about that part of the book or about Buddhayana in general?

I tend to concur, as I have not seen any successful attempt at a Buddhayana in spite of numerous talks about it from various teachers. Usually the different parts splinter-off again to their own traditions.

The FWBO made a vigorous attempt, but at least in the U.S., have not had any success.
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby SeerObserver » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:17 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:I tend to concur, as I have not seen any successful attempt at a Buddhayana in spite of numerous talks about it from various teachers. Usually the different parts splinter-off again to their own traditions.

The FWBO made a vigorous attempt, but at least in the U.S., have not had any success.

I've heard of Bodhipaksa, although I'm not all that familiar with the whole ordeal. Is the FWBO a controversial organization, or was it just one individual rogue? Is that part of why they were not successful in their attempt?

Is it inevitable that Buddhists would splinter off to their own traditions, at least to some extent? It the US, it doesn't seem like this could be done as easily as it's done for non-denominational Christian congregations. First of all, what language would the chanting be done in? And then there's the issue of the folk beliefs and practices which may have gotten mixed in depending on whatever country the Buddhists come from. It's not as if Buddhists go to a congregation, listen to a sermon, and then congregate in a main area for awhile and go home.
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:24 pm

SeerObserver wrote:I've heard of Bodhipaksa, although I'm not all that familiar with the whole ordeal. Is the FWBO a controversial organization, or was it just one individual rogue? Is that part of why they were not successful in their attempt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FWBO

Scroll down to the area about controversies with the FWBO. Apparently there may have been some sexual misconduct, but I think most of the problems were with getting their Buddhayana doctrines off the ground.
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:24 pm

my problem with this idea is instead of weeding out whats wrong in theravada (which is mostly cultural anyways) it just wants to ditch it and start something new, this would cause a split in the sangha which isnt needed at all, and maybe (probably?) worse than the things we can find fault in within the tradition as it stands
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:45 pm

SeerObserver wrote:It's not as if Buddhists go to a congregation, listen to a sermon, and then congregate in a main area for awhile and go home.

They do at the temple I frequent. Once a month for the full moon day.
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby SeerObserver » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:54 pm

Peter wrote:
SeerObserver wrote:It's not as if Buddhists go to a congregation, listen to a sermon, and then congregate in a main area for awhile and go home.

They do at the temple I frequent. Once a month for the full moon day.

Right, same here actually. Perhaps my example wasn't perfect, but the point is that there are other practices, teachings, and whatever else go into the sermons and various ceremonies. It's not the same to where a Christian minister can be non-denominational by not expressing and teaching Protestant, Catholic, etc. views.

Interesting to explain, but I think you know what I'm trying to get at.
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Peter wrote:
SeerObserver wrote:It's not as if Buddhists go to a congregation, listen to a sermon, and then congregate in a main area for awhile and go home.

They do at the temple I frequent. Once a month for the full moon day.

and every sunday here too!
in fact temple is a lot like church.... and 99% of asian buddhists i know dont meditate and more than that if they do meditate its not on any regular basis. they also dont study suttas so in reality the monks could probably teach them whatever...

i think, and one of our thai living monks can confirm this or not, most of the buddhism learned by lay people came from jataka tales up until recently and maybe even these days too, i know the temple is packed when theyre read.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby SeerObserver » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:22 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:and every sunday here too!
in fact temple is a lot like church.... and 99% of asian buddhists i know dont meditate and more than that if they do meditate its not on any regular basis. they also dont study suttas so in reality the monks could probably teach them whatever...

i think, and one of our thai living monks can confirm this or not, most of the buddhism learned by lay people came from jataka tales up until recently and maybe even these days too, i know the temple is packed when theyre read.

Right, but in these sermons can you really remove traces of particular Buddhist tradition? I don't think it's the same as how a Christian minister can be non-denominational. Even the interpretation of the moral to be learned from a particular will have a certain flavor to it, won't it?
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:20 pm

just to catch up I go to a group every wednesday where a talk and meditation session is held, not in a temple or Wat as there are none in Aberdeen, but a FWBO group for a bit of company with like minded individuals (its the closest and easiest to get too)

I think the main difference between Buddhist "Sermons" and Christian sermons is that the Buddhist talks are questionable, it isn't a case of a bit of leeway here and there or move to another denomination or what ever, the talks are one persons point of view which we are encouraged to test and then agree with question or dismiss if we find it flawed.

I think if a Theravada version of the FWBO were to form it would be similar to modern/western Theravada except with an actual "Temple" monks, nuns, etc which is not associated directly with another countries tradition.

I think this will take time, and the first steps have started to happen, and I think the Thai forest tradition in the west will be at the fore of this, but for it to be truly balanced all the Theravada groups (Thai, Burmese, etc) should meet up (3 or 4 separate groups all looking for cultural add ons in the same areas) and go through the tipitaka, particularity the Vinaya and remove the area specific rituals, which are solely cultural add ons. but then again all the Vinaya lines should be involved there.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby clw_uk » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:05 pm

Greetings


It was also a term i came accross in Ajahn Buddhadasa's book "heartwood from the Bodhi Tree" (print version)

Apprently he used it so as to state that he doesnt follow or teach what a certain tradition or school dictates but only what the Buddha himself taught


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Re: Buddhayana

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:28 pm

TheDhamma wrote:The FWBO made a vigorous attempt, but at least in the U.S., have not had any success.


Hello TheDhamma,

This may be your opinion but from my point of view it has no real validity. I am not sure what kind of measure you use to look for success.


TheDhamma wrote:Apparently there may have been some sexual misconduct, but I think most of the problems were with getting their Buddhayana doctrines off the ground.


A practitioner can attempt to communicate their understanding of a teaching or their experience of attempting to practice from that understanding but what does it mean to "get a doctrine off the ground"?

Kindly

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"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Buddhayana

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:18 am

clw_uk wrote:It was also a term i came accross in Ajahn Buddhadasa's book "heartwood from the Bodhi Tree" (print version)

Apprently he used it so as to state that he doesnt follow or teach what a certain tradition or school dictates but only what the Buddha himself taught

Which is simply a self-promoting way of saying "I don't teach what tradition teaches but instead teach my own interpretation."
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