Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:54 am

Some people have told me that when they ate what they thought to be delicious food mindfully, it turned out to be less delicious than they thought- so even simply being mindful while eating helps. Overcoming senduality is a valid (albeit not popular) part of practice. :anjali:

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:07 am

rowyourboat wrote:Some people have told me that when they ate what they thought to be delicious food mindfully, it turned out to be less delicious than they thought- so even simply being mindful while eating helps. Overcoming senduality is a valid (albeit not popular) part of practice. :anjali:


That seems to be implied by appropriate practice of mindfulness:

unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:12 am

TMingyur wrote:Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

Do you have anything to support this notion?
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15786
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:23 am

Ben wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

Do you have anything to support this notion?


If you mean a sutta where the Buddha says "Attachment (clinging) is inhering in experiencing 'deliciousness'" then no, I do not have such a sutta reference.

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:24 am

TMingyur wrote:
Ben wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

Do you have anything to support this notion?


If you mean a sutta where the Buddha says "Attachment (clinging) is inhering in experiencing 'deliciousness'" then no, I do not have such a sutta reference.

Kind regards
In other words, it is an idea of your making.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:28 am

tiltbillings wrote:In other words, it is an idea of your making.


What is not "an idea of our making" if expressed in words and terminology?

Actually I looked up the meaning of "deliciousness" in a vocabulary and presented my conclusion.


Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:52 am

Its just not that complicated...sigh.
If you have a bowl of wholesome food that has been garnered with a minimum of suffering to sentient beings just eat it gratefully.

The centipede was happy , quite
until a toad in fun,
said "pray, which leg goes after which ? "
which worked his mind to such a pitch
he laid distracted in a ditch
considering how to run.

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Sanghamitta
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:02 am

TMingyur wrote:Attachment (clinging) is inhering in experiencing 'deliciousness'

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words, it is an idea of your making.


What is not "an idea of our making" if expressed in words and terminology?

Actually I looked up the meaning of "deliciousness" in a vocabulary and presented my conclusion.
There is no inherent reason that attachment must arise from the experience of "deliciousness." That would present some serious problems, if true.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:25 am

TMingyur wrote:
Ben wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

Do you have anything to support this notion?


If you mean a sutta where the Buddha says "Attachment (clinging) is inhering in experiencing 'deliciousness'" then no, I do not have such a sutta reference.

Kind regards


Tell me Ming, if one discerns a vedana as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral, does it infer that one is experiencing clinging, aversion or indifference towards that vedana?

kind regards

Bne
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15786
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:40 am

Ben wrote:Tell me Ming, if one discerns a vedana as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral, does it infer that one is experiencing clinging, aversion or indifference towards that vedana?

kind regards

Bne


No.

In the case of the experience of "deliciousness of food" as soon as vedana is discerned the "deliciousness of food" fades away which is simply because consciousness cannot have two objects (vedana and alleged delicious taste of food) at the same time.

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:46 am

But of course attachment may shift from the perceptual level of "taste of food" to the perceptual level of "vedana". "may" means "not necessarily 'does'".

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:50 am

On other words, this:

Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

is wrong.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:03 am

TMingyur wrote:
Ben wrote:Tell me Ming, if one discerns a vedana as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral, does it infer that one is experiencing clinging, aversion or indifference towards that vedana?

kind regards

Bne


No.

In the case of the experience of "deliciousness of food" as soon as vedana is discerned the "deliciousness of food" fades away which is simply because consciousness cannot have two objects (vedana and alleged delicious taste of food) at the same time.

Kind regards


I still don't understand how clinging comes about by discerning the pleasant nature of taste?
Can you explain it?
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15786
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:20 am

Ben wrote:I still don't understand how clinging comes about by discerning the pleasant nature of taste?
Can you explain it?
It is not just a matter of "attachment" coming about by, but he said it is 'attachment is inhering in experiencing "deliciousness,"' which says something a lot stronger than merely coming about by. If it may not come about by. But if it is inhering in the experience, it always comes about by.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:20 am

tiltbillings wrote:On other words, this:

Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

is wrong.


Since the context of this statement was experiencing "deliciousness" of food I cannot agree.

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:23 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:On other words, this:

Attachment (clinging) thus is shown to be inhering in experiencing "deliciousness"

is wrong.


Since the context of this statement was experiencing "deliciousness" of food I cannot agree.

Kind regards
Fine, but you have not made a case for this statement. I am thinking you do not know what "inhering" (inherent) means.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:27 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Ben wrote:I still don't understand how clinging comes about by discerning the pleasant nature of taste?
Can you explain it?
It is not just a matter of "attachment" coming about by, but he said it is 'attachment is inhering in experiencing "deliciousness,"' which says something a lot stronger than merely coming about by. If it may not come about by. But if it is inhering in the experience, it always comes about by.

Yes, of course. My attention was being diverted by a delicious meal I was eating while not experiencing clinging or attachment to the meal, and trying to understand Ming's reasoning.
You are right - the real difficulty I am having with Ming's statements is the claim that attachment inherent in the experience of deliciousness. Its tantamount to saying that attachment is inherent in discerning the pleasant characteristic of vedana. Which is what I was getting at earlier.

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15786
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby ground » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:36 am

Ben wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Ben wrote:Tell me Ming, if one discerns a vedana as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral, does it infer that one is experiencing clinging, aversion or indifference towards that vedana?

kind regards

Bne


No.

In the case of the experience of "deliciousness of food" as soon as vedana is discerned the "deliciousness of food" fades away which is simply because consciousness cannot have two objects (vedana and alleged delicious taste of food) at the same time.

Kind regards


I still don't understand how clinging comes about by discerning the pleasant nature of taste?
Can you explain it?


Mere discerning in the context of dependent origination does not involve clinging. But experiencing "deliciousness" as a characteristic of some food is far from mere discerning in the context of dependent origination.

Of course you may agree or disagree. I have reached the limit of my verbal capacity so please accept if I leave it at that.


Kind regards
Last edited by ground on Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:40 am

TMingyur wrote: But experiencing "deliciousness" as a characteristic of some food is far from mere discerning in the context of depending origination.
Not necessarily.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Do you eat for taste or nutrition?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:43 am

TMingyur wrote:experiencing "deliciousness" as a characteristic of some food is far from mere discerning in the context of depending origination.

Really, how is it different to describing a taste as 'pleasant'?
And where is the inherent clinging in discerning taste as pleasant? Or the inherent aversion in discerning a taste as unpleasant? Or the inherent indifference to discerning a taste as neutral?
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15786
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

PreviousNext

Return to Wellness, Diet & Fitness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Unrul3r and 2 guests