External satipatthana

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

External satipatthana

Postby phil » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:26 am

In his book on satipatthana, Ven. Anaalayo devotes a fair bit of attention to external satipatthana,
recommending the interpretation that one should make inferences about others' mind states by observing their habitual comportment. He says this could help keep satipatthana from being too self-centered.

I find it a bit surprising. Interesting to make such guesses about the cittas at work in people around us, but sounds more like a distraction than a support for satipatthana. And as for encouraging extroversion as a balance for too much introversion, as he does, sounds a bit odd. (i guess he is using a stricter definition of extroverted, to mean turning towards others rather than the outgoing, talkative image of extrovrted we usually have.

Any thoughts? Do you practice external satipatthana in this way?
I hope that every time I post it will be accompanied by a wish for the wellbeing of everyone in this sangha and all beings.
(so I don't have to write "metta" every time!)


Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:48 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby phil » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:05 am

tiltbillings wrote:See

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1122



Thanks Tiltbilling, I can see others have also been perplexed by the interpretation the Venerable gives most weight to.
In his talk on MN10, Bhikkhu Bodhi also goes with this interpretation....
I hope that every time I post it will be accompanied by a wish for the wellbeing of everyone in this sangha and all beings.
(so I don't have to write "metta" every time!)


Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby Alexei » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:58 am

phil wrote:Do you practice external satipatthana in this way?


I practice in this way and find it enormous helpful. One can understand better other people and so oneself.

Sedaka Sutta
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby ground » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:55 am

phil wrote:Do you practice external satipatthana in this way?


No, i.e. if then only incidentally. Generally I suspect this kind of volitional practice to be cultivation of arbitrary imputations. So I prefer to refrain from this.

I think I prefer the non-conventional interpretation of "external satipatthana" as an objectivying analysis of experience from an observing perspective.
In contrast to this "internal satipatthana" then means a non-objectivying analysis of experience from an experiencing perspective.


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Re: External satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:10 am

Alexei wrote:
phil wrote:Do you practice external satipatthana in this way?


I practice in this way and find it enormous helpful. One can understand better other people and so oneself.

Sedaka Sutta
As I pointed out in the above link, it certainly can be practiced that way quite literally and meaningfully. It is not only a wisdom practice, but also a compassion practice.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby phil » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:24 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Alexei wrote:
phil wrote:Do you practice external satipatthana in this way?


I practice in this way and find it enormous helpful. One can understand better other people and so oneself.

Sedaka Sutta
As I pointed out in the above link, it certainly can be practiced that way quite literally and meaningfully. It is not only a wisdom practice, but also a compassion practice.


I can certainly see it as a compassion practice and a wise way to approach others. For example, we know that not showing aversion towards others' behaviour is a form of dana, the gift of freedom from fear. Being tuned into what others' expressions indicate about their mindstates will help there.

I also see now that there is an active thread related to this topic in the meditation corner, I should read more thoroughly....
I hope that every time I post it will be accompanied by a wish for the wellbeing of everyone in this sangha and all beings.
(so I don't have to write "metta" every time!)


Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby Dmytro » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:17 am

Hi,

There's a thread about the term "bahiddhā":
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8462

Metta, Dmytro
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Re: External satipatthana

Postby phil » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:24 am

Dmytro wrote:Hi,

There's a thread about the term "bahiddhā":
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8462

Metta, Dmytro


Thanks Dmytro, interesting.
I hope that every time I post it will be accompanied by a wish for the wellbeing of everyone in this sangha and all beings.
(so I don't have to write "metta" every time!)


Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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