An Arahant's Constitution

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SeerObserver
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An Arahant's Constitution

Postby SeerObserver » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:26 am

Just to be clear, I write this thread with no intention of questioning anyone's attainment. That is why specific references are left out for the time being (although they will probably eventually be brought up here and there).

Having attained enlightenment, how would that be reflected in one's constitution?

There are accounts of arahants being rude and otherwise impersonable. These range from the time of the Buddha through to modern times. Wouldn't one with such an attainment have gradually shed certain traits such as impatience, rudeness, etc? What about foul language?

It could be argued that certain attitudes are expressed as a skillful means of teaching a lesson as well, so that might reconcile certain instances of rudeness and the like.

And what to make of smoking?

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Re: An Arahant's Constitution

Postby SeerObserver » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:50 am

There is an account of Ajahn Chah I have seen somewhere (unverified so please let me know). Someone claiming to have just attained stream-entry came to tell him about it. Ajahn Chah says something along the lines that he supposes the meditator is now much better off than a dog (a fairly harsh insult in Thai, to call someone a dog). Afterwards, the meditator is fuming and leaves. Sotapanna?

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Re: An Arahant's Constitution

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:16 am

Hi
I sent a PM to dhamanando a little while ago about this as he had mentioned an arahant who was complained about du to his manner of speeking.
here is the relevant section of his reply which I am sure he won't mind me sharing here

Arahant Pilindavaccha, in the Pilindavaccha Sutta of the Udāna. Also given in more detail in the Dhammapada Commentary to Dhp. verse 408. The term of insult was 'vasala', meaning hireling or outcaste.


as for the Ajahn Chah part to your second post I have heard of Ajahn Chah being rude on several occasions and this one you mention I think is not directly mentioned in one of the Books, but certainly the reflections
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: An Arahant's Constitution

Postby SeerObserver » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:11 pm

SeerObserver wrote:There is an account of Ajahn Chah I have seen somewhere (unverified so please let me know). Someone claiming to have just attained stream-entry came to tell him about it. Ajahn Chah says something along the lines that he supposes the meditator is now much better off than a dog (a fairly harsh insult in Thai, to call someone a dog). Afterwards, the meditator is fuming and leaves. Sotapanna?

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/ariyas4.htm This is a good link to read side by side with this example.
Manapa wrote:I sent a PM to dhamanando a little while ago about this as he had mentioned an arahant who was complained about du to his manner of speeking.
here is the relevant section of his reply which I am sure he won't mind me sharing here

Arahant Pilindavaccha, in the Pilindavaccha Sutta of the Udāna. Also given in more detail in the Dhammapada Commentary to Dhp. verse 408. The term of insult was 'vasala', meaning hireling or outcaste.

as for the Ajahn Chah part to your second post I have heard of Ajahn Chah being rude on several occasions and this one you mention I think is not directly mentioned in one of the Books, but certainly the reflections

I'm pretty sure that's one of the accounts I saw that I was referring to. The label of hireling is familiar. As for the Ajahn Chah example, it is a skillful use of an instance of rudeness.

Regarding rudeness, it has come to my attention to make the distinction between residual habitual tendencies and defilements. So arahants will not be prone to anger, but may still come off as rude to some.

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Re: An Arahant's Constitution

Postby clw_uk » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:48 pm

Greetings


As i understand, Anatta isnt about annihilating personality or getting rid of it, its truly understanding it and seeing it for what it is


So therefor an Arahant can still have a distinct personality, its just there is no ignorance in understanding it and so no greed hatred or delusion


Metta
“The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised." Verses on the Faith Mind, Sengcan


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