Jataka Tales

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cooran
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Jataka Tales

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

I thought you may find some Jataka Tales of interest. Always remembering that the Jataka verses are in the Pali Canon, but not the Tales.

No. 180 - Duddada-Jataka (p59 The Jataka or Stories of the Buddha's Former Births - E.W. Cowell. ISBN 81-206-1489-0 (set)

"'Tis hard to do as good men do," etc. - This story the Master told whilst in Jetavana, about alms given in common. Two friends at Savatthi, young men of good position, made a collection, providing all the necessaries to give the Buddha and his followers. They invited them all, provided bounty for seven days, and on the seventh presented them with all their requisites. The eldest of these saluted the Master, and said, sitting beside him, "Sir, amongst the givers some gave much and some gave little; but let it bear much fruit for all alike". Then he offered the gift. The Master's reply was: "in giving these things to the Buddha and his followers, you, my lay friends, have done a great deed In days of old wise men gave their bounty thus, and thus offered their gifts." Then at his request he told a story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once upon a time, when Brahmadatta was king of Benares, the Bodhisatta was born into a brahmin family of Kasi. When he grew up, he was thoroughly educated at Takkasila; after which he renounced the world, and took up the religious life, and with a band of disciples went to live in Himalaya. There he lived a long time.

Once having need to procure salt and seasoning, he went on pilgrimage through the country-side, and in course of it he arrived at Benares. There he settled in the king's park; and on the following morning he and his company went a-begging to some village outside the gates. The people gave him alms. Nex day he sought alms in the city. The people were all glad to give him their alms. They clubbed together and made a collection; and provided plenty for the band of anchorites. After the presentation their spokesman offered his gift with the same words as above. The Bodhisatta replied, "Friend, where faith [1] is, no gift is small." And he returned his thanks in these verses following:

"'Tis hard to do as good men do, to give as they can give,
Bad men can hardly imitate the life which good men live.

"And so, when good and evil go to pass away from earth,
The bad are born in hell below, in heaven the good have birth."

This was his thanksgiving. He remained in the place for the four months of the rains, and then returned to Himalaya; where he practised all the modes of holy meditation, and without a single interruption continued in them until he joined the hosts of heaven.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When the discourse came to an end the Master identified the Birth: "At that time," said he, "the Buddha's company was the body of ascetics, and I myself was their leader."

[1] Citta-pasado

metta
Chris
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SeerObserver
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by SeerObserver »

Jataka tales are quite interesting. Some of the moral concepts within them are relatively difficult to grasp due to the surrounding circumstances.
  • Giving over children to someone else. (Detachment...?)
    Sacrificing of one's own life in order for a tiger to have sustenance. (Detachment from "self"?)
Mawkish1983
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Chris wrote:... the Jataka verses are in the Pali Canon, but not the Tales.
I'm dumb (sorry), can you explain to me what the Jataka verses are/are about? What's the difference between the tales and the verses?

Thanks :)
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retrofuturist
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mawkish,

The Jatakas are "birth stories" about the former lives of the Buddha and other stars of the Pali Suttas.

As far as I'm aware, the only difference between the Tales and the Verses is their canonical status.

In many respects, the Jatakas are classical Indian fables that promote virtuous wholesome activity, albeit with little regard for the Buddha's teachings on kamma. However, simply because they misrepresent the workings of kamma, does not make them useless... something need not be factual to have a positive impact on someone's thinking and behaviour (think "To Kill A Mockingbird" for example)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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SeerObserver
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by SeerObserver »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Mawkish,

The Jatakas are "birth stories" about the former lives of the Buddha and other stars of the Pali Suttas.

As far as I'm aware, the only difference between the Tales and the Verses is their canonical status.

In many respects, the Jatakas are classical Indian fables that promote virtuous wholesome activity, albeit with little regard for the Buddha's teachings on kamma. However, simply because they misrepresent the workings of kamma, does not make them useless... something need not be factual to have a positive impact on someone's thinking and behaviour (think "To Kill A Mockingbird" for example)

Metta,
Retro. :)
Excellent synopsis, Retro. Thanks.

It wasn't until fairly recently that I was aware that there were verses. In what manner do the verses cover the former lives of the Buddha and the others as opposed to the tales?
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gavesako
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by gavesako »

Some Jatakas have been added to the canonical collections of the various early schools, others have been written much later (e.g. in Gandhara, or as recently as 17th century Thailand). Because they are more like fables, it is a very popular literary genre which gives the writer a greater freedom to expand the story at length.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Mawkish1983
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by Mawkish1983 »

retrofuturist wrote:... the only difference between the Tales and the Verses is their canonical status ... they misrepresent the workings of kamma
I see, thanks retro :) is it both the tales and the verses that misrepresent kamma or is it just the 'tales'?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mawkish,
Mawkish1983 wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:... the only difference between the Tales and the Verses is their canonical status ... they misrepresent the workings of kamma
I see, thanks retro :) is it both the tales and the verses that misrepresent kamma or is it just the 'tales'?
I don't know... whenever I've read a Jataka, I've never really made the effort to check whether it was a "verse" or a "tale".

Generally speaking, I'd say don't get your Dhamma from a Jataka, take it from the suttas. Look to Jatakas for inspiration and Dhammic Stories.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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robertk
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by robertk »

I have never found any jataka commentary that misrepresented kamma, could you give us an example.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Robert,

An example...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... tml#jat018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matakabhatta Jataka
The Goat That Laughed and Wept
Jat 18
One day, while the Buddha was staying in Jetavana, some bhikkhus asked him if there was any benefit in sacrificing goats, sheep, and other animals as offerings for departed relatives.

"No, bhikkhus," replied the Buddha. "No good ever comes from taking life, not even when it is for the purpose of providing a Feast for the Dead." Then he told this story of the past.

Long, long ago, when Brahmadatta was reigning in Baranasi, a brahman decided to offer a Feast for the Dead and bought a goat to sacrifice. "My boys," he said to his students, "take this goat down to the river, bathe it, brush it, hang a garland around its neck, give it some grain to eat, and bring it back."
"Yes, sir," they replied and led the goat to the river.

While they were grooming it, the goat started to laugh with a sound like a pot smashing. Then, just as strangely, it started to weep loudly.

The young students were amazed at this behavior. "Why did you suddenly laugh," they asked the goat, "and why do you now cry so loudly?"

"Repeat your question when we get back to your teacher," the goat answered.

The students hurriedly took the goat back to their master and told him what had happened at the river. Hearing the story, the master himself asked the goat why it had laughed and why it had wept.

"In times past, brahman," the goat began, "I was a brahman who taught the Vedas like you. I, too, sacrificed a goat as an offering for a Feast for the Dead. Because of killing that single goat, I have had my head cut off 499 times. I laughed aloud when I realized that this is my last birth as an animal to be sacrificed. Today I will be freed from my misery. On the other hand, I cried when I realized that, because of killing me, you, too, may be doomed to lose your head five hundred times. It was out of pity for you that I cried."

"Well, goat," said the brahman, "in that case, I am not going to kill you."

"Brahman!" exclaimed the goat. "Whether or not you kill me, I cannot escape death today."

"Don't worry," the brahman assured the goat. "I will guard you."

"You don't understand," the goat told him. "Your protection is weak. The force of my evil deed is very strong."

The brahman untied the goat and said to his students, "Don't allow anyone to harm this goat." They obediently followed the animal to protect it.

After the goat was freed, it began to graze. It stretched out its neck to reach the leaves on a bush growing near the top of a large rock. At that very instant a lightning bolt hit the rock, breaking off a sharp piece of stone which flew through the air and neatly cut off the goat's head. A crowd of people gathered around the dead goat and began to talk excitedly about the amazing accident.

A tree deva had observed everything from the goat's purchase to its dramatic death, and drawing a lesson from the incident, admonished the crowd: "If people only knew that the penalty would be rebirth into sorrow, they would cease from taking life. A horrible doom awaits one who slays." With this explanation of the law of kamma the deva instilled in his listeners the fear of hell. The people were so frightened that they completely gave up the practice of animal sacrifices. The deva further instructed the people in the Precepts and urged them to do good.

Eventually, that deva passed away to fare according to his deserts. For several generations after that, people remained faithful to the Precepts and spent their lives in charity and meritorious works, so that many were reborn in the heavens.

The Buddha ended his lesson and identified the Birth by saying, "In those days I was that deva."
Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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mikenz66
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Retro,

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between the message of that tale and Suttas such as:
MN 135: Cula-kammavibhanga Sutta, The Shorter Analysis of Action
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does that Sutta also mis-represent kamma?

Metta
Mike
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retrofuturist
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,

The problems lie with the:

* Fixed results corresponding to fixed actions (1 goat sacrifice = 500 decapitations)
* The inevitability of kammic fruition (Whether or not you kill me, I cannot escape death today)
* Other niyamas co-ercing specifically to bring kamma to fruit (i.e. the lightning, the rock)
* Talking goat (I mean, really)

In relation to MN 135, which does not suffer from any of these problem, I'll point you to a post I made recently in the Study Group - http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 832#p10275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The point of the Jataka is to teach a lesson... don't harm sentient beings and live by the precepts... again, it's a fable providing a good moral lesson.... but it's a "tall story"... bending a few truths along the way.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Mawkish1983
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by Mawkish1983 »

retrofuturist wrote:it's a fable providing a good moral lesson.... but it's a "tall story"... bending a few truths along the way.
Thank you very much for sharing this, retro. Today I have learnt something :)

Metta to you
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gavesako
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by gavesako »

The overly simplistic representation of kamma is not limited to the Jataka tales but also to the Vimanavatthu and Petavatthu, as well as the Apadana texts (later additions to the Pali Canon which nevertheless continue to exert a strong influence on the popular understanding of kamma in SE Asia).
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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mikenz66
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Re: Jataka Tales

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: * Fixed results corresponding to fixed actions (1 goat sacrifice = 500 decapitations)
Yes, but the Buddha doesn't really directly teach that in the tale, it's what the participants assume.

I agree that MN135 isn't particularly problematical either. Like the Jakata tale is may depend on how you read it. In both cases the message is that doing bad stuff will lead to bad stuff in future lives.

Metta
Mike
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