Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

morning mist wrote:
This is exactly what hope to see on various suttas website for a long time but didn't see . Incorporating a DPR side by side with the English translation just like Dukkhanirodha had it laid out will be very helpful for readers because when they are confused about a certain translation, they can click on the Pali words with definition pop-ups ( or some where ) and see the meaning of the word more thoroughly. It can contribute to a more thorough understanding of the discourse . That way they don't have to look it up .

I agree with Dukkhanirodha that it can be very complex. It takes a long time just to post the English version alone, especially if you are translating before posting. Maybe another person can help to incorporate the DPR into the pali in the left ( or whatever way possible).
That would b a good idea. But I will not be able to do that alone on all the suttas. If people actually help, it is possible. Otherwise, i might do this only for a few suttas.
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gavesako
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by gavesako »

Another similar project:

http://4nobletruths.info/s/s56/s56.11.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
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morning mist
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by morning mist »

Dukkhanirodha wrote:
morning mist wrote:
This is exactly what hope to see on various suttas website for a long time but didn't see . Incorporating a DPR side by side with the English translation just like Dukkhanirodha had it laid out will be very helpful for readers because when they are confused about a certain translation, they can click on the Pali words with definition pop-ups ( or some where ) and see the meaning of the word more thoroughly. It can contribute to a more thorough understanding of the discourse . That way they don't have to look it up .

I agree with Dukkhanirodha that it can be very complex. It takes a long time just to post the English version alone, especially if you are translating before posting. Maybe another person can help to incorporate the DPR into the pali in the left ( or whatever way possible).
That would b a good idea. But I will not be able to do that alone on all the suttas. If people actually help, it is possible. Otherwise, i might do this only for a few suttas.

I have been setting up the table of content for the Nikayas on the website and posting a few suttas but is nowhere close to finish either. Maybe we can cooperate on posting the suttas so it will be faster. Why don't we post the english version on the website I am working on and yours will be in French so it will be available in different two language. The google translater is okay but it is a little bit funny without some touch up . So when readers press translate on the google reader it is not that accurate for certain words.

Dukkhanirodha, have you used the amazon kindle reader or iBook reader ? When you click on a certain words , the dictionary definition pops up. It would be nice if the same thing would show up for the Pali that we put next to the English translation. If you are familiar maybe you can incorporate that for the Pali version and I'll post the suttas. Otherwise, maybe someone can incorporate the Pali dictionary definition pop up later after we post the suttas with the Pali side by side.

Another feature that would be nice to provide is to embed an audio version of the suttas somewhere on the same page so people can listen if they prefer that .

With metta,
Last edited by morning mist on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
with metta,
morning mist
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by morning mist »

Ytrog wrote:Eh, what is DPR exactly?
It is like a digital pali dictionary .


gavesako wrote:Another similar project:

http://4nobletruths.info/s/s56/s56.11.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[/quote]


Ajahn Gavesako,I haven't come across that website before. I wonder if it is complete with the full Sutta Pitaka or is it under construction. It would be even better if they use a template.
with metta,
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

erratum: sorry for the inconveniences it may cause to any of you

for a number of reasons, one being that I am rarely available on the internet, I will have to work on my own, whatever amount of time it takes me.
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Kare
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Kare »

I find your project commendable. Any project that helps people to read the Pali texts directly, is very useful.

Still, I have to say that I do not really believe in trying to read a Pali text without understanding the grammar. In a highly inflected language, like Pali, the grammar elements make up a very important part of the language. One might say that a Pali word consists of two main elements: the vocabulary element (the first part of the word) and the grammar element or the inflection element (the last part of the word). Both elements are equally important. If we drop out the grammar and only go for the vocabulary elements, we can easily miss the sense of the sentence.

Let me illustrate this with an example in English. Here are the bare vocabulary elements of a short sentence:

boy kill snake

Add some grammatical elements, and we get:

The boy killed the snake
The boys are killing the snake
The boy was killed by the snake
etc.

The meaning of the sentence may change a little, or it may change radically, by adding different grammatical elements.

A beginner might think that it would be helpful to read Pali texts without worrying with the grammar. But sooner or later a reader has to study the grammar if he or she wants to be able to understand the texts. You would never try to read a foreign language without worrying about the vocabulary. The grammar is equally important.
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

I totally agree

but not everyone is ready to get into Pali grammar, which is quite complex and they can grasp quite a lot working only on semantics. This project here is intended to those who already know they will never understand fully the Pali text, but who would like to get at least some superficial understanding anyway. It's still much better than nothing...

...And, it might inspire those same people to finally get into the grammar...
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

there was a mistake previously the index page was in French while I believed I had updated it to English. It is important because it explains the purpose of this work:
http://www.suttapitaka.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are two prototypes of what the suttas will look like:
with word-by-word definitions:
http://www.suttapitaka.net/an03-108.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with definitions only on selected words:
http://www.suttapitaka.net/an03-109.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

if possible, feedback is appreciated

thank you all
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morning mist
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by morning mist »

The definition pop-up is great. It would be easier to know which one has a definition pop-up if they have a different color. That way there is no need to run the cursor over all the words to see which ones have a pop-up. The corresponding English term on the right side that has a pop-up should also be the same color .
with metta,
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Assaji
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Assaji »

Hi,

Leigh Brasington did a great job:

http://leighb.com/suttas.htm#bilingual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by rowboat »

Very nice work. I've been looking for something just like this, Dukkhanirodha.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

morning mist wrote:The definition pop-up is great. It would be easier to know which one has a definition pop-up if they have a different color. That way there is no need to run the cursor over all the words to see which ones have a pop-up. The corresponding English term on the right side that has a pop-up should also be the same color .
There is a note explaining the words which have a pop are in italic. This might not be obvious enough though. I thought of putting them in bold, but I also thought it hinders the reading of some people.
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

Thanks for the feedback. It might go slowly though, since available time to work on this project is getting shorter
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

Here is shallow study of the Jhana formulae:

http://www.suttapitaka.net/formulae.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please give some feed back, I will try my best to make it as user friendly as possible for the largest number
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Sekha
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Re: Under construction - learn Pali reading the suttas

Post by Sekha »

The first version of the website is available.

1) 6 suttas still in beta version have been translated
2) the glossary has about 350 entries with definitions of the words given in the suttas as much as possible. Links to the suttas are still mostly to ATI, but they will be pubished soon on suttapitaka.net
3) there are two sets of Pali formulae already published
4) on the index page, you can like the page on facebook in order to be updated from there.
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