Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:43 pm


The gates of Black Dis¹ stand open night and day.
But to retrace one's steps and escape to the upper air –
that is toil, that is labour.

¹Black Dis is the Guardian of Hell.
(Virgil, the Aeneid, Penguin Hutchinson Reference)

It is unfashionable to believe in hell these days. Any talk about hell is regarded as scaremongering. The Burmese Sayādaw's don't talk so much about Niraya, but they often talk about the dangers of rebirth in the lower realms. Once reborn in such as the animal realm, the way down to hell is much easier. I wonder how we can realise just how rare human rebirth is?
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:27 pm

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pink_trike
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby pink_trike » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:01 am

I've been "reborn" in both hell and heaven repeatedly in this life, sometimes with only a moment or two in between. Now I do my best to avoid them both - and to find the middle ground in daily life, right here, right now. :anjali:
Last edited by pink_trike on Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:22 am

Greetings,

I like how Bhikkhu Pesala never sugarcoats the Dhamma.

As for "anyone can go to hell", I believe that applies to anyone who has yet to reach stream-entry.

All the more reason to continue striving.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby nathan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:23 am

Not afraid to go on record saying that hell is real and deep, easy to get into and hard to get out of. It may be unfashionable to say so and it may be fashionable to take steps towards ending up there but I've never had any fashion sense at all and I'm not afraid to admit that either. Anyone who thinks that hell is only in the mind should make efforts to somehow get a real tour of the real place before it is too late. It's one prayer request that usually get's a pretty speedy and efficacious response from someone somewhere capable of delivering the real goods. Not something I'd advise for the fearful, timid, those with a nervous disposition or for light sleepers and the like though. Go ahead, mock me if you like but I've had a taste, can you say the same?
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby SeerObserver » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:41 am


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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Jechbi » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:05 am

Last edited by Jechbi on Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby SeerObserver » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:08 am


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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby pink_trike » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:16 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Jechbi » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:44 am


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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby cooran » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:57 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby nathan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:26 am

To be honest I'm a little fed up with the implications that I am simply mentally ill. If that's what you think why don't you just come out and say it you cowards.

I'll tell you what. I'll start a new thread called "The most negative mental state", we can all post the most negative mental states we have ever experienced and see who comes out on top.

When we get done with that I will tell you what an experience of actual hell is like. I'm pretty sure that if I don't come out on top of the negative mental state pissing contest that I will at least be a finalist. I have known the depths of depression, where death seems preferable and I have been incarcerated with some of the most violently and psychotically deranged people in society and I have been more or less directly exposed to those states of mind by cohabitation under the influence of some of the most powerful mind opening and mind destroying psychoactive drugs known to man.

I would say, in comparison to hell, the most disturbed and horrific mental states knowable in human experience are like a drop in the ocean of comparative suffering.'

Let the insufferable games begin.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:20 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby pink_trike » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:32 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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cooran
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby cooran » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:38 am

Hello Pink, all,

There are no hells in the Human realm. What we experience is just the intense suffering within the Human realm.
According to the Teachings, one may or may not be reborn in a Hell Realm due to kammic accumulations.
The SammaSamBuddha is born in the Human Realm because there is 'just enough' suffering mixed with 'just enough' happiness for the Teachings to have the best effect.

It is simply poetic licence to call any mental or physical state in the human realm 'hell'. It just leads to confusion.

Yes, we've all suffered - some terribly. You cannot know the citta of another - you cannot know what any others of us have suffered ... physically, emotionally or mentally.
Most of us don't reveal it.

But it is still just Human-realm Suffering.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby pink_trike » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:53 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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clw_uk
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby clw_uk » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:34 pm

Greetings


I agree with Pink, all the hells are right here, they can be in the next mind moment


These are more fearful than any lake of fire, since we know their pain to be very real and sadly how easy it can be sometimes to fall into the depths of them


It doesnt matter to me if they are real after death, knowing the pain of them now is enough to make one purify virtue so as not to enter any kind of hell, anywhere or in any form


Metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Ordinaryperson » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:15 pm

I can recall several dreams I had of entering hell a while back and they were very real that I can still remember them so clearly until today so make it what you will. Here are some of the descriptions.

1) I was crossing a lake with all sort of corpses in them. I mean all sorts. e.g. bursting stomach with intestine all over, "inflatable" corpses, skin peeling off, semi-submerged corpses, hacked bodies, children, adult, olds, young, male and female all in the lake. I was crossing the lake to a nearby train station on the opposite side of the lake by the way. I think I also noticed several mountains surrounding the lake (big lake) but the mountains were fairly barren but yet I could see something sticking up like tiny trees. But there were not trees. The lake has light breeze and water was very clear.

2) Another dream was me wondering into another hell of some sort where I felt a bit like entering a cave that was damp, dark, slimy, stale air and with little sunlight. Then I saw a group of people, four I think, wearing white clothing with long messy hairs with a chain tight to their waist belts and the belts contain spikes that punctured their skins. I think they were "human mules" pulling in circle a giant granite milling stone. Their white clothing, around the waist, was completely soaked with blood. I saw that when they slowed down to take a break by removing their belts temporarily. I think I saw a girl. She looked sad, very sad but suffered in silent and yet did cry or complain. Just like someone has given up hope. She was taking off her belt.

3) Then to another hall where everyone was sitting reading books with the "master or teacher" in front of them. The room was a cave that was damp, dark, slimy, stale air and with candle light on the wall. They all looked at me when I accidentally walked into their room but continued reading. The room/cave looked a very long and never ending so I walked on.

4) Then to another room where every stood naked on a staircase like stand packed like sardines and someone walked in to give everyone a cup of water to drink ... then I woke up.

There you go. They were all very real for me and did not have the "abstract" feel to them and the only thing was I could not smelt the odour very well but I could feel the breeze all over so for me I think they were real hell.

How I got there I do not know but I also dreamed of visiting a place full of monks.

:anjali:

Actively trying to destroy the Three Unwholesome Roots of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance
Greed is the greatest danger of them all

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:53 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)


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