the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Skeptic
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Skeptic » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:58 am


PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:03 am

Yes..... :smile:

:anjali:

Akuma
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:13 am


Akuma
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:23 am


PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:55 am


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kirk5a
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby kirk5a » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:46 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:17 pm

" Would our practice remain the same " ? I cant answer that.
Does MY practice remain the same..yes.
Does the notion have any merit ?

For me it does ..yes.


Perhaps you would care to show the reference for the Buddha saying that teachers will be poets ?

It would instantly become my favourite quotation of his.

chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby chownah » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:19 pm

Ontological reality or poetic ideal....choose your weapon and come out firing!!!!
chownah

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:21 pm

Or simply watch as bald men argue over combs. :smile:


There is an assumption made here that truth and the poetical are somehow incompatible.
I would argue that the poetical can be more true than a recitation of factual data.
This becomes particularly the case when what is under discussion is experiential rather than merely philosophical.

The Buddha did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus..or Brahma.
He arose in a culture with a particular world view already formed from ancient times.
He used those elements to arrive at a non ontological view, but one which borrowed from the ontology of the prevailing culture.

We each have to decide which of those elements are useful to us and which not.
"Where we draw the line " is a issue vital to the authenticity of our individual journey.

rowyourboat
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:29 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:46 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:51 pm

Au contraire..
As Ajahn Buddhadasa has pointed out clearly and repeatedly , if we put the Three Lives Model to one side a whole series of meanings start to leap out of the Suttas that are obscured by a semi Hindu model. A model necessitated by the culture which the Buddha commenced his teaching ministry.
In a very real sense the dissolution of the body and its rebirth happen with every breath.
Last edited by PeterB on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:51 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:59 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby kirk5a » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:59 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:02 pm

It is you Alex that insist on a demarcation between truth and poetic expression.

Each of us must decide what is true and what is not useful to us.

I have no interest ( really and truly ) in influencing you or anyone else in any way in these matters.
Neither after much reflection on these matters during which I have moved along a spectrum of views over many years likely to be swayed by any form of words or protestations of direct insight denied to those who think differently.
The only reason I have joined this ultimately futile debate at all is to demonstrate to anyone still wavering that there are alternatives to a wholesale swallowing of a kind of fundamentalist view.

Buddha Dhamma is what you do. Not what belief structure you cultivate.

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:03 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:12 pm

What HE said... :smile:

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:17 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:22 pm

As for becoming a better person, as long as this is understood correctly it's actually found throughout the Suttas. I'll mention chapter three of in this connection, and simply mention that arahants are described as "bhavit-atto" in the Cullaniddesa.

:focus: :shrug:
Last edited by daverupa on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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