Any comments on this thread

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adosa
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Any comments on this thread

Postby adosa » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:29 pm

Greetings,

Here's a thread from e-sangha that has been on my mind for awhile now. If what Robert and Kevin are saying is true then my practice has been way off base. I've also asked what then do they recommend and I'm still a bit fuzzy.

Any thoughts

adosa

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... 86236&st=0
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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genkaku
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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby genkaku » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:04 pm

Adosa -- Do you think you could sum up here the issues and answers you find difficult?

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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:15 pm

Hi adosa,

I was referring to those threads in my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1151

Genkaku: In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.

In his latest post on the thread that Adosa linked to Alexander (Kevin) states that he did several retreats under Mahasi-tradition teachers but after his study of Abhidhamma decided that he was not, in fact, making the progress his teachers told him he was.

Metta
Mike

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Ben
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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:02 pm

I disagree with Alexander's assessment and I would have recommended to him to persevere with his meditative practice.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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genkaku
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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby genkaku » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:13 pm

In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.


Thanks Mike.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think anyone starting out in a meditation practice is trying to "get something" or "develop something." That's one of the definitions of hope or belief ... getting something or developing something. And in the process of trying to get something or develop something, of course we discover our approach is ineffective.

Ineffective, BUT ....

In Buddhist practice, the fact that we are trying to get something or develop something doesn't mean that we are not getting anything. Something happens in practice. The fact that that something has little or nothing to do with our beliefs and hopes does not mean we have gone off course. The magical -- and sometimes sneaky, I think -- part of Buddhism is that it works no matter how hard we may imagine or explain that it works. Our concoctions and praises support an on-going practice until experience sneaks up on us and our previous imaginings are not so necessary any more.

So ... out of the muck of fabrication, a beautiful lotus has reason to grow.

If any of that makes sense.

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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:35 pm

Spot on, Adam!
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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adosa
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Re: Any comments on this thread

Postby adosa » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:19 pm

Sorry. I could have boiled it down a bit and thanks to Mike for doing so. Also, my apologies for overlooking Mike already bringing the subject up here.




adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183


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