Greetings,
Here's a thread from e-sangha that has been on my mind for awhile now. If what Robert and Kevin are saying is true then my practice has been way off base. I've also asked what then do they recommend and I'm still a bit fuzzy.
Any thoughts
adosa
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... 86236&st=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Any comments on this thread
Any comments on this thread
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
Re: Any comments on this thread
Adosa -- Do you think you could sum up here the issues and answers you find difficult?
Re: Any comments on this thread
Hi adosa,
I was referring to those threads in my post here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Genkaku: In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.
In his latest post on the thread that Adosa linked to Alexander (Kevin) states that he did several retreats under Mahasi-tradition teachers but after his study of Abhidhamma decided that he was not, in fact, making the progress his teachers told him he was.
Metta
Mike
I was referring to those threads in my post here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Genkaku: In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.
In his latest post on the thread that Adosa linked to Alexander (Kevin) states that he did several retreats under Mahasi-tradition teachers but after his study of Abhidhamma decided that he was not, in fact, making the progress his teachers told him he was.
Metta
Mike
Re: Any comments on this thread
I disagree with Alexander's assessment and I would have recommended to him to persevere with his meditative practice.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Any comments on this thread
Thanks Mike.In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.
Maybe I'm off base, but I think anyone starting out in a meditation practice is trying to "get something" or "develop something." That's one of the definitions of hope or belief ... getting something or developing something. And in the process of trying to get something or develop something, of course we discover our approach is ineffective.
Ineffective, BUT ....
In Buddhist practice, the fact that we are trying to get something or develop something doesn't mean that we are not getting anything. Something happens in practice. The fact that that something has little or nothing to do with our beliefs and hopes does not mean we have gone off course. The magical -- and sometimes sneaky, I think -- part of Buddhism is that it works no matter how hard we may imagine or explain that it works. Our concoctions and praises support an on-going practice until experience sneaks up on us and our previous imaginings are not so necessary any more.
So ... out of the muck of fabrication, a beautiful lotus has reason to grow.
If any of that makes sense.
Re: Any comments on this thread
Spot on, Adam!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Any comments on this thread
Sorry. I could have boiled it down a bit and thanks to Mike for doing so. Also, my apologies for overlooking Mike already bringing the subject up here.
adosa
adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183