Any comments on this thread

[adosa]

Greetings,

Here's a thread from e-sangha that has been on my mind for awhile now. If what Robert and Kevin are saying is true then my practice has been way off base. I've also asked what then do they recommend and I'm still a bit fuzzy.

Any thoughts

adosa

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... 86236&st=0

[genkaku]

Adosa -- Do you think you could sum up here the issues and answers you find difficult?

[mikenz66]

Hi adosa,

I was referring to those threads in my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1151

Genkaku: In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.

In his latest post on the thread that Adosa linked to Alexander (Kevin) states that he did several retreats under Mahasi-tradition teachers but after his study of Abhidhamma decided that he was not, in fact, making the progress his teachers told him he was.

Metta
Mike

[Ben]

I disagree with Alexander's assessment and I would have recommended to him to persevere with his meditative practice.

[genkaku]

In brief, the claim is that most meditation techniques as currently taught are ineffective because the meditator is trying to "get something" or "develop something" and in the process just enhances a sense of self.

Thanks Mike.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think anyone starting out in a meditation practice is trying to "get something" or "develop something." That's one of the definitions of hope or belief ... getting something or developing something. And in the process of trying to get something or develop something, of course we discover our approach is ineffective.

Ineffective, BUT ....

In Buddhist practice, the fact that we are trying to get something or develop something doesn't mean that we are not getting anything. Something happens in practice. The fact that that something has little or nothing to do with our beliefs and hopes does not mean we have gone off course. The magical -- and sometimes sneaky, I think -- part of Buddhism is that it works no matter how hard we may imagine or explain that it works. Our concoctions and praises support an on-going practice until experience sneaks up on us and our previous imaginings are not so necessary any more.

So ... out of the muck of fabrication, a beautiful lotus has reason to grow.

If any of that makes sense.

[Ben]

Spot on, Adam!

[adosa]

Sorry. I could have boiled it down a bit and thanks to Mike for doing so. Also, my apologies for overlooking Mike already bringing the subject up here.




adosa