Mind states in Satipatthana

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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tiltbillings
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by tiltbillings »

[For all you commentary poo-poo-ers, just a note: all the translations I have looked at of the passages in question follow the commentaries, which says something about need for really learning Pali, and learning it well, if you are going to poo-poo the commentaries.]

Saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ in the few suttas I looked always apperars in this list:


rāgaṃ cittaṃ
dosaṃ cittaṃ
samohaṃ cittaṃ

saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ

mahaggataṃ cittaṃ
uttaraṃ cittaṃ
samāhitaṃ cittaṃ
vimuttaṃ cittaṃ

See http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 22#p144704" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the full Pali.

rāgaṃ cittaṃ -- greedy/lustful mind
dosaṃ cittaṃ -- hateful mind
mohaṃ cittaṃ -- delusional mind

saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ

mahaggataṃ cittaṃ -- mind become great
uttaraṃ cittaṃ -- ming crossed over
samāhitaṃ cittaṃ -- mind having attained
vimuttaṃ cittaṃ -- mind liberated.

Now, the pivotal word here is saṅkhittaṃ. Do we read it, along with the commentaries, as contracted or can we read it, as the PTS Dictionary suggests, as concentrated, attentive? I suppose it depends upon how you want to look at the nature of this list. An argument can be made for either reading.

You have a contracted mind, which is what greed, hatred and delusion gives us and this contrasts with a mind become great. Or you have a concentrated mind, which gives rise to a mind that becomes great and all that follows. Lists in the suttas almost always move in a progression, and one could probably argue, reasonably, that in the suttas where this list is given that a progressive reading is appropriate and that saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ as a concentrated, attentive works as well as, if not better than, the commentarial reading.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
rowyourboat
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by rowyourboat »

Hi Tilt,

Looking at the list I believe Samahita refers to concentration- and even the Visuddhhimagga commentary (see sankhitta definition already quoted) has it is thina-middha, which is sloth and torpor. It makes sense that the first 4 elements on the list refers to elements of the five hindrances followed by 1) prejhanic samadhi (mahaggatta) 2) jhanic samadhi (sauttara) 3) highest developmenet of fourth jhana/vipassana samadhi (Samahita) 4) enlightened mind (Vimutta). This is just my interpretation. :)

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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tiltbillings
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by tiltbillings »

rowyourboat wrote:Hi Tilt,

Looking at the list I believe Samahita refers to concentration- and even the Visuddhhimagga commentary (see sankhitta definition already quoted) has it is thina-middha, which is sloth and torpor. It makes sense that the first 4 elements on the list refers to elements of the five hindrances followed by 1) prejhanic samadhi (mahaggatta) 2) jhanic samadhi (sauttara) 3) highest developmenet of fourth jhana/vipassana samadhi (Samahita) 4) enlightened mind (Vimutta). This is just my interpretation.
Maybe but it hardly convincing, given that you would have "concentration" after uttara.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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effort
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by effort »

rowyourboat wrote:
Idha bhikkhave bhikkhu
sarāgaṃ vā cittaṃ sarāgaṃ cittanti pajānāti, vītarāgaṃ vā cittaṃ vītarāgaṃ cittanti pajānāti,
sadosaṃ vā cittaṃ sadosaṃ cittanti pajānāti, vītadosaṃ vā cittaṃ vītadosaṃ cittanti pajānāti,
samohaṃ vā cittaṃ samohaṃ cittanti pajānāti, vītamohaṃ vā cittaṃ vītamohaṃ cittanti pajānāti,
saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ saṅkhitta cittanti pajānāti, vikkhittaṃ vā cittaṃ vikkhittaṃ cittanti pajānāti,

mahaggataṃ vā cittaṃ mahaggataṃ cittanti pajānāti, amahaggataṃ vā cittaṃ amahaggataṃ cittanti pajānāti,
sauttaraṃ vā cittaṃ sauttaraṃ cittanti pajānāti, anuttaraṃ vā cittaṃ anuttaraṃ cittanti pajānāti,
samāhitaṃ vā cittaṃ samāhitaṃ cittanti pajānāti, asamāhitaṃ vā cittaṃ asamāhitaṃ cittanti pajānāti,
vimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ vimuttaṃ cittanti pajānāti, avimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ avimuttaṃ cittanti pajānāti.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#pts.290" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhus, the bhikkhu following my Teaching knows[49]
the mind accompanied by passion,[50] as 'Mind with passion'; he knows the mind unaccompanied by passion, as 'Mind without passion';
he also knows the mind accompanied by anger,[51] as 'Mind with anger'; he also knows the mind unaccompanied by anger, as 'Mind without anger';
he also knows the mind accompanied by bewilderment,[52] as 'Mind with bewilderment'; he also knows the mind unaccompanied by bewilderment, as 'Mind without bewilderment';
he also knows the indolent state of mind,[53] as 'Indolent state of mind'; he also knows the distracted state of mind,[54] as 'Distracted state of mind';
he also knows the developed state of mind,[55] as 'Developed state of mind'; he also knows the undeveloped state of mind,[56] as 'Undeveloped state of mind':
he also knows the inferior state of mind, as 'Inferior state of mind'; he also knows the superior state of mind,[57] as 'Superior state of mind';
he also knows the mind in a state of concentration,[58] as 'Mind in a state of concentration'; he also knows the mind not in a state of concentration,[59] as 'Mind not in a state of concentration';
he also knows 'the liberated state of mind,[60] as 'Liberated state of mind'; he also knows the unliberated state of mind,[61] as 'Unliberated state of mind'.
Burmese Pitaka association translation:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bpit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta

:namaste:

Matheesha

it is hard for me or even impossible to label the mind state as complete as above list, and i'm curious to know how others do that?
chownah
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by chownah »

effort wrote: it is hard for me or even impossible to label the mind state as complete as above list, and i'm curious to know how others do that?
I think you have brought up a good point. While it is good to want to know the precise meanings of the words listed in the original post for mind states it is probably true that there are many different mind states and that whatever they are they should be discerned and understood...it is my view that this is the Buddha's intent in giving this teaching as well as to name some of the important ones......to me it seems plausible that as one progresses along the path that one will develop the ability to know and understand mind states without fabricating around them and giving them names.
chownah
rowyourboat
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by rowyourboat »

If you think of the last time you were angry- you might want to visualize that situation in your mind. Now look at where exactly anger felt- is it in the head, the throat or heart area? Can you give this emotion a 'shape'- where/how it is spread out? Now this is the likely place where you will feel most other defilements. Now there can be concommitant thoughts as well (ie angry thoughts in this case). You can just think the thought 'I am a strawberry' and see where you might feel that- usually somewhere in your head. Defiled thoughts would arise there. This is the way that even wholesome mental states can be directly detected in your mind/heart.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Assaji
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Post by Assaji »

Hi,
buddhajunkie wrote:What do the words "constricted", "scattered". "enlarged" and "surpassed" mean in MN10?
There's a comprehensive commentary at:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... wayof.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes, Dmytro
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