The consequence for using intoxicants

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The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Individual » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:00 am

What did the Buddha say is the consequence for using intoxicants (like marijuana and alcohol)?

And even if he said such things, what is your proof of his claims?

I vaguely remember hearing that people who use intoxicants will be crazy in future lives. Is this true? Is mental illness in the present life due to intoxicants in the past?
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:44 am

In the Book of the Eights of the Gradual Sayings, the Buddha teaches:

“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.” (Duccaritavipākasuttaṃ)
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:34 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:...if done frequently or habitually...
Looks like I found the dhamma just in time then :)

Thank you Bhante
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:34 am

10. Duccaritavipākasuttaṃ

I append to the Pali text just the least result of these eight unwholesome kammas, if one is reborn as a human being, and not in hell, or the other lower realms.

40. “Pāṇātipāto, bhikkhave, āsevito bhāvito bahulīkato nirayasaṃvattaniko tiracchānayonisaṃvattaniko pettivisayasaṃvattaniko. Yo sabbalahuso pāṇātipātassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa appāyukasaṃvattaniko hoti. (killing living beings leads to short life)

“Adinnādānaṃ, bhikkhave, āsevitaṃ bhāvitaṃ bahulīkataṃ nirayasaṃvattanikaṃ tiracchānayonisaṃvattanikaṃ pettivisayasaṃvattanikaṃ. Yo sabbalahuso adinnādānassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa bhogabyasanasaṃvattaniko hoti. (stealing leads to destruction or loss of one's property)

“Kāmesumicchācāro, bhikkhave, āsevito bhāvito bahulīkato nirayasaṃvattaniko tiracchānayonisaṃvattaniko pettivisayasaṃvattaniko. Yo sabbalahuso kāmesumicchācārassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa sapattaverasaṃvattaniko hoti. (sexual misconduct leads to having hostile rivals)

“Musāvādo, bhikkhave, āsevito bhāvito bahulīkato nirayasaṃvattaniko tiracchānayonisaṃvattaniko pettivisayasaṃvattaniko. Yo sabbalahuso musāvādassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa abhūtabbhakkhānasaṃvattaniko hoti. (lying leads to false accusations)

“Pisuṇā, bhikkhave, vācā āsevitā bhāvitā bahulīkatā nirayasaṃvattanikā tiracchānayonisaṃvattanikā pettivisayasaṃvattanikā. Yo sabbalahuso pisuṇāya vācāya vipāko, manussabhūtassa mittehi bhedanasaṃvattaniko hoti. (slander leads to the dissolution of friendships)

“Pharusā, bhikkhave, vācā āsevitā bhāvitā bahulīkatā nirayasaṃvattanikā tiracchānayonisaṃvattanikā pettivisayasaṃvattanikā. Yo sabbalahuso pharusāya vācāya vipāko, manussabhūtassa amanāpasaddasaṃvattaniko hoti. (leads to a displeasing voice)

“Samphappalāpo, bhikkhave, āsevito bhāvito bahulīkato nirayasaṃvattaniko tiracchānayonisaṃvattaniko pettivisayasaṃvattaniko. Yo sabbalahuso samphappalāpassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa anādeyyavācāsaṃvattaniko hoti. (idle chatter leads to ones speech being disregarded)

“Surāmerayapānaṃ, bhikkhave, āsevitaṃ bhāvitaṃ bahulīkataṃ nirayasaṃvattanikaṃ tiracchānayonisaṃvattanikaṃ pettivisayasaṃvattanikaṃ. Yo sabbalahuso surāmerayapānassa vipāko, manussabhūtassa ummattakasaṃvattaniko hotī”ti. (taking intoxicants leads to insanity)

āsevitaṃ = practised; bhāvitaṃ = cultivated; bahulīkataṃ = made much of; niraya = hell; saṃvattanikaṃ = leads to; tiracchāna = animal; yoni = womb; pettivisaya = hungry ghosts; yo = whoever; sabbalahuso = the least of all; vipāko = kammic result; manussa = human being; bhūtassa = becoming, state of; ummattakasa = madness, insanity.
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby bodom » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:00 pm

"There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness:

(i) loss of wealth,
(ii) increase of quarrels,
(iii) susceptibility to disease,
(iv) earning an evil reputation,
(v) shameless exposure of body,
(vi) weakening of intellect.

Sigalovada Sutta
The Discourse to Sigala
The Layperson's Code of Discipline

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby bodom » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:02 pm

Individual wrote:What did the Buddha say is the consequence for using intoxicants (like marijuana and alcohol)?

And even if he said such things, what is your proof of his claims?

I vaguely remember hearing that people who use intoxicants will be crazy in future lives. Is this true? Is mental illness in the present life due to intoxicants in the past?



Ever been addicted to drugs? If you have then you have the proof of the Buddhas statement. The consequences of alcoholism and drug addiction are blantantly obvious. 80% percent of the prison population in the world is drug or alchol related.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Fede » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:16 pm

What great and wondrous kamma I must have had to be born as I am!
I have never been attracted to, nor partaken in any intoxicant save on only one occasion during my dim, distant and foolish youth!
It taught me a lesson I have never forgotten!

never again!

Sadly though, I have all too often seen and witnessed the effects on others.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Justin » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:21 am

I walked into sociology two weeks ago to find that a classmate of mine had his right arm in a cast. When he was asked what happened to him, he replied that he had gotten drunk at a party over the weekend, fallen into a deluded fury, and punched a thick wooden staircase banister, breaking his wrist. Sadly, he now has to type his entire term paper with one hand. Truly the Buddha knew what he was doing when he prohibited intoxicants.
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby SeerObserver » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:51 pm

Justin wrote:I walked into sociology two weeks ago to find that a classmate of mine had his right arm in a cast. When he was asked what happened to him, he replied that he had gotten drunk at a party over the weekend, fallen into a deluded fury, and punched a thick wooden staircase banister, breaking his wrist. Sadly, he now has to type his entire term paper with one hand. Truly the Buddha knew what he was doing when he prohibited intoxicants.

Right. intoxicants inhibit judgment and therefore make you more likely to do things you normally wouldn't. A main point is that it makes you more likely to break the preceding 4 precepts.

Buddhists are to cease doing evil, do good, and cultivate purity in the mind. The third is clearly hindered by intoxicants.
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:08 pm

SeerObserver wrote:intoxicants inhibit judgment and therefore make you more likely to do things you normally wouldn't. A main point is that it makes you more likely to break the preceding 4 precepts.

Buddhists are to cease doing evil, do good, and cultivate purity in the mind. The third is clearly hindered by intoxicants.


their is a zen store which is all about this, but Alcohol also aggravates and heightens mental disorders.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby SeerObserver » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:12 pm

Manapa wrote:
SeerObserver wrote:intoxicants inhibit judgment and therefore make you more likely to do things you normally wouldn't. A main point is that it makes you more likely to break the preceding 4 precepts.

Buddhists are to cease doing evil, do good, and cultivate purity in the mind. The third is clearly hindered by intoxicants.


their is a zen store which is all about this, but Alcohol also aggravates and heightens mental disorders.

A zen store whose theme is anti-intoxicants? Does this mean that most of the books, tapes, etc. sold there discuss that topic? Do they have a website?
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:16 pm

SeerObserver wrote:
Manapa wrote:
SeerObserver wrote:intoxicants inhibit judgment and therefore make you more likely to do things you normally wouldn't. A main point is that it makes you more likely to break the preceding 4 precepts.

Buddhists are to cease doing evil, do good, and cultivate purity in the mind. The third is clearly hindered by intoxicants.


their is a zen store which is all about this, but Alcohol also aggravates and heightens mental disorders.

A zen store whose theme is anti-intoxicants? Does this mean that most of the books, tapes, etc. sold there discuss that topic? Do they have a website?


oops I meant story????
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:39 am

Fede wrote:What great and wondrous kamma I must have had to be born as I am!

Indeed :) you've earn't it :)
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Fede » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:23 am

And the buddies I have 'slap me up de head' if ever I come across as muddled and be-fuddled in the noddle - and long may they keep doing so! Best "sober up!" call anyone could have!
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Jason » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:19 pm

SeerObserver wrote:
Justin wrote:Right. intoxicants inhibit judgment and therefore make you more likely to do things you normally wouldn't.


Yeah, like letting loose and dancing the night away at a Presets show. :D
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Fede » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:04 pm

Yeh... Saw you Jase.... word of advice.... no luminous pink frock, next time...... :roll: :jumping:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Nibbida » Tue May 05, 2009 4:40 am

There is a more insidious effect of alcohol and marijuana. It is a more subtle aspect, one that is easily overlooked. If we only look at the more obvious injuries and mishaps from using an intoxicant, many people will dismiss them saying that they never drink and drive, or they only have a few drinks and never get into much or any trouble. And they may be right about that.

But remember that the Buddha's advice was not to use intoxicants at all, not in moderation. Whenever a person uses moderate amounts of intoxicants it still serves to blunt out unpleasant emotions and thoughts. It becomes a mild form of avoidance. The more one does that, the more it becomes reinforced as a way to deal with the stresses of life. While that may not be terrible, it's the opposite of facing stress with mindfulness and equanimity. The Buddhist goal is to increase awareness of the pain, watch it arise and pass without complicating it, suppressing it, or avoiding it. Consuming intoxicants does not enhance mindfulness and equanimity, and instead is practicing it's opposite. Done repeatedly, over time, this makes a person less prepared to manage stress.

I'm not moralizing against intoxicants or people who use them. I'm pointing to the literal but subtle mental consequences of their use.
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby BlackBird » Tue May 05, 2009 7:34 am

Individual wrote:What did the Buddha say is the consequence for using intoxicants (like marijuana and alcohol)?


I would like to bring up the subject of psychoactives and what is regarded as an intoxicant. In fact, some of them probably lead me to the path I'm on today.
I've had a lot of experiences with various psychoactives, I wouldn't consider all of them, at least in a conventional sense to be 'intoxicants' whether this transposes to the Dhamma or not I am not sure.

Although it can be said that Marijuana is conventionally regarded as an intoxicant, in the sense that it does result in attention lapses (lapses of mindfulness?) and thus is not conducive to practise, I don't think it's nearly as harmful as Alcohol.

However I'm sure this is a debate that's been done before and so I would be interested to hear wise opinions on this subject.

Metta
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Mexicali » Tue May 05, 2009 5:31 pm

I've used a lot of what I call "desert drugs" like weed, mescaline, and mushrooms, and drank a lot. Never tried the harder stuff except opiate pills a couple times. It could be fun, but certainly was not conducive to any kind of honest look at life. People who claim that there are enlightening properties to such substances are sort of missing the point; you do get a few scattered insights into the working of your own mind (provided you are paying any attention to your mind and not Cartoon Network), but they're too fleeting and difficult to integrate when you're straight again. Besides the short term inability to function fully, it destroys long term ability to use your mind to its full extent. 'Buddhist' teachers who encourage psychedelic use and/or drinking are reprehensibly irresponsible.
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Re: The consequence for using intoxicants

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:"There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness:

(i) loss of wealth,
(ii) increase of quarrels,
(iii) susceptibility to disease,
(iv) earning an evil reputation,
(v) shameless exposure of body,
(vi) weakening of intellect.

Sigalovada Sutta
The Discourse to Sigala
The Layperson's Code of Discipline

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html

:namaste:


Thanks a lot for this :namaste:
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