Kamma in Pali script

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Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:54 am

Hello everyone. I'm working on my masters thesis on Theravada Buddhist attitudes towards wildlife in Thailand, and I find myself in need of the Pali word Kamma (as in Karma) written in Pali script. I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't seem to find it anywhere. I was hoping that some of you people knowledgeable in writing Pali could help me out. I would really appreciate it! I don't know if you can post Pali script on here. If not I can put my email address up. Thanks so much for your help!
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:06 am

Greetings Angela

There is no script that is definitively associated with or exclusively Pali. Pali is not the name of a script but a language.
The canon was preserved in pali in (probably) the dominant script used within a particular culture at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali

The closest script that dates from the time of early Buddhist literature is probably the Brahmi script.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi

Perhaps some of our Pali-wallahs may assist you furthr.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:18 am

Hi Ben. Thanks for your help and for being so speedy! I guess I thought that there was a borrowed script that was commonly used to write Pali--such as Sanskrit. From what you're saying, however, that doesn't seem to be the case. Would it then be common practice to simply use a Latin transcription? Thanks again, Angela.
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:21 am

Greetings,

Would it then be common practice to simply use a Latin transcription?

In Romanised Pali (as it's known) it would just be 'kamma'.

In Sinhalese, Thai and other languages, it will look different again.

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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:25 am

कम्म is kamma in Deavanagari, which is used for Sanskrit and other related Indian languages, if you want to have the word kamma in a lovely exotic script.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:29 am

กัมม์ Thai script, but I'd check that out with Thai speakers here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:37 am

Excellent, and thanks very much everyone! I could manage it myself in Thai--กรรม I think--but that lovely exotic script would also look great on the page :reading:

Your help and suggestions are very much appreciated. Now I will go and wow my professors....wait, is that plagiarism :oops:
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:39 am

Angelatarangela wrote:Excellent, and thanks very much everyone! I could manage it myself in Thai--กรรม I think--but that lovely exotic script would also look great on the page :reading:

Your help and suggestions are very much appreciated. Now I will go and wow my professors....wait, is that plagiarism :oops:
No, it is god google, which is where I found it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:44 am

Here's a great resource for Thai, if you ever need it. I know...this isn't a forum for Thai, but maybe it will come in handy...

http://www.thai-language.com/dict
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:46 am

Angelatarangela wrote:Here's a great resource for Thai, if you ever need it. I know...this isn't a forum for Thai, but maybe it will come in handy...

http://www.thai-language.com/dict
That is great. Now if I could find something that good for Irish . . .
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:46 am

In typical chanting books, kamma would normally be written phonetically in Thai as: กัมมะ

The symbol in Tilt's post that looks a bit like sigma on here: ม์ is actually used to render a syllable silent.

It's probably a mistaken and truncated rendering of: kammaṃ = กัมมัง.

I think กรรม is Thai, rather than Pali, for bad kamma: http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/1263634.html

Some examples of Thai script are on ShinMeiDokuJoh's blogs:
http://sutta-sutra-pali-in-thai-script- ... gspot.com/

:anjali:
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby gavesako » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:10 am

As mentioned above, there are different ways in which "kamma" can be spelled using Thai characters. In normal written Thai it would be กรรม which comes from Sanskrit "karma", similar to ธรรม = "dharma" (which can sometimes be spelled ธรรมะ as well, and then pronounced with the -a at the end which is normally dropped). The phonetic spelling กัมมะ is only used in the original Pali texts or chanting books.See http://society.worldtipitaka.org/mds/co ... ew/188/49/

Because the Thais normally mis-pronounce Pali, there has been an effort by the World Tipitaka group to introduce them to proper Pali pronunciation through the International Phonetic Alphabet: http://society.worldtipitaka.org/mds/co ... ory/26/45/
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:39 am

Hi Venerable, Nice to hear from you...
gavesako wrote:Because the Thais normally mis-pronounce Pali, there has been an effort by the World Tipitaka group to introduce them to proper Pali pronunciation through the International Phonetic Alphabet: http://society.worldtipitaka.org/mds/co ... ory/26/45/

It will be interesting to see how that goes down... :jumping:

:anjali:
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:50 pm

There is no "Pali script", but for the Brahmi script in Pali language, this site is good, showing the corresponding sounds:

http://www.ancientscripts.com/brahmi.html
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:15 pm

That is great. Now if I could find something that good for Irish . . .[/quote]


Sorry--I don't think they've managed such a thing for Irish :mrgreen:
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:22 pm

Thanks, Gavesako. That really clarifies things. I was trying to figure out how กรรม spelled "kamma" or "karma" without a ะ , but if they pronounce it without an a sound at the end, it makes a lot more sense.

Cheers!
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby appicchato » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:07 pm

As said in the very first reply to the OP, there is none.

A very large can of worms is in store for anyone trying to transliterate Thai to Roman script (as there is no unified system), whether Pali, or any other language be the desired one...although Thai has many Pali words in their own vocabulary, it depends on where (which part of the country) one is talking about (as well as no equivalent sound to certain letters in other languages, thus rendering transliteration even more difficult)...Thais from the South have great difficulty (if not no) understanding (of) their counterparts from the North, Issan, etc.(and vice versa) even using everyday lingo...

I'm not trying to dampen anyone's interest in their pursuit in this endeavor, just be prepared to know that, while some may get what one is trying to convey, a majority will be left scratching their heads...

This isn't chiseled in stone, but comes with more than thirty years residing in the country...

Best of luck to you though...
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:42 pm

appicchato wrote:This isn't chiseled in stone,


Image

Brahmi script is chiseled in stone. :tongue:

But I think I see your point, that there is no "holy" language, at least certainly no "holy" script. Writing Pali in Thai script is no more "holy" than writing it in Roman letters.
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Angelatarangela » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:47 am

Hi Appichato. Thanks for the warning. I grew up in Thailand, so I'm fairly familiar with Thai and its transliteration. You are very correct in saying that transliterating Thai into English is difficult, and indeed there is no unified system. In my thesis I am attempting to follow the Royal Thai General System of transliteration, as far as possible. Fortunately the majority of my study has nothing to do with Thai or Pali language for that matter. Right now I'm simply setting the scene for attitudes toward wildlife in Thailand by discussing Theravada Buddhism, and its origins.

Thanks again everyone!
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Re: Kamma in Pali script

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:57 am

Hi David,

David N. Snyder wrote:
appicchato wrote:This isn't chiseled in stone,


Image

Brahmi script is chiseled in stone. :tongue:

But I think I see your point, that there is no "holy" language, at least certainly no "holy" script. Writing Pali in Thai script is no more "holy" than writing it in Roman letters.


About a week ago I was listening to the radio (Radio National here in Australia) and they were playing a program on Latin and the christian idea of sacredness being imbued in certain languages. An early version of the bible was written in Latin, Greek and Aramaic (I think). Scholars concluded that the language becomes sacred when a sacred text is translated into it so as that the text becomes understandable to the people using that language. But how long did it take for christians to realize that? Its still only in recent memory that the Catholic mass was still being officiated in Latin.
kind regards

Ben
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