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renunciation - Dhamma Wheel

renunciation

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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kc2dpt
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renunciation

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:48 pm

- Peter


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Fede
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Re: renunciation

Postby Fede » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:01 pm

I think when one is so attached to sensual pleasures, and the pursuit of the fulfilment of desires, it's difficult to look at the drawbacks, because one is focussed on what they could do for us, and what we'd be missing if we didn't have them.

After all, if it could be ably, tangibly and physically demonstrated how labour intensive marriage and having children are, many might well be put off by indulging in either - !!
It's a question of doffing the rose-tinted spectacles, in some ways......

I further think reflection on such matters is easier, in mature age...... not always, granted. But occasionally, age and experience count for a great deal.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:20 pm

Thank you Peter. I think and talk about renunciation often, in fact. I feel that even for lay people it's an important part of the path.

To me it even goes beyond sensual pleasures. To me renunciation is recognizing that samsara is dissatisfying, and developing resolve to go beyond it. It's rejecting worldly dharmas as well as the core of what continuously draws us into becoming. I don't mean to say that we should be detached and stop caring, but I do mean that being fed up with samsara and trying to learn to behave accordingly has been very important to me.

:buddha2:


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Fede
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Re: renunciation

Postby Fede » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:04 pm

....do you actually mean 'worldly dharmas' - or 'worldly dramas''?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:25 pm



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Re: renunciation

Postby Jechbi » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:34 pm


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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:52 pm



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Re: renunciation

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:20 pm

- Peter


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Re: renunciation

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:17 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: renunciation

Postby Jechbi » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:26 am


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Re: renunciation

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:35 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:36 am

:goodpost:


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Re: renunciation

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:04 am

I think that Sutta is incredibly inspiring. Not only is Ghatikara a non-returner still supporting his family but he drags the future Buddha Gotama by the hair to see Kassapa... There's a nice talk about it by Ajahn Brahm at http://www.bswa.org/audio/podcast/SuttaStudy.rss.php

Check out them meeting up again in Samyutta Nikaya 1:50 {s i 35-36} (page 125 in Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation).

Metta
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Re: renunciation

Postby appicchato » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:26 am


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Dan74
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Re: renunciation

Postby Dan74 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 am

The eight worldly winds?

_/|\_
_/|\_

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:47 am

Perhaps I've gotten misinformation. That certainly seems to be the case! You can disregard what I've written.

But I'm all for renunciation :thumbsup:


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Re: renunciation

Postby Fede » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:26 am

I'm not disregarding it. Whatever it was - dharma, drama or wind - I see the lesson in it......

:reading:

:namaste:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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kc2dpt
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Re: renunciation

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:15 pm

- Peter


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: renunciation

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:03 pm

Thanks Fede and Peter, I got a little self-conscious :embarassed:

:toast:


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Re: renunciation

Postby Lazy_eye » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:46 pm

Hi,

Not to lower the tone of the discussion, but I'd be interested in some perspectives on this topic as it relates to sex within a relationship. Does the average Theravadin lay practitioner, married or in a long-term relationship, aspire to minimizing or eliminating sex? Or are efforts focused more on avoiding misconduct (adultery, etc)?

I'm aware that celibacy isn't required of laypeople. Still, many teachings and meditative practices are designed to introduce disenchantment with physical form, as part of a systematic program of eliminating desire. This can be very helpful in containing one's free-floating lust, but what about the potential impact within a marriage? Practically speaking, I'm not sure how one can meditate on the filth and degradation of the body and then jump happily into the sack with the missus or hubby.

It seems to me that devoted contemplation of the drawbacks of sensual pleasures and the rewards of renunciation could lead to arguments with one's partner -- unless, of course, that person is also a Theravadin with similar goals.

How does a non-celibate Theravadin practitioner handle this apparent conflict of interest?

I posted a similar question on E-sangha awhile back (), but the responses were mostly from non-Theravadins -- thanks Fede, though, for your comment!. Again, don't mean to sound like a hormonal school kid, but it is a question that continues to bug me.
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:34 pm, edited 5 times in total.


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