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Fifth precept - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Fifth precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
PeterB
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:32 pm

A good illustration of the fact that there is a whole dimension that whoever invented the precepts could not have envisaged.
Personally I have never had any drinking buddies, The concept is completely alien to me.
Myself and some of my friends including Buddhist ones have been known to have a glass of vino with dinner with family or friends.
Would they count as drinking buddies ?

Mawkish1983
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:59 pm


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cooran
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby cooran » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:21 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Mawkish1983
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:38 pm


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David N. Snyder
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:43 pm

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:01 pm

Oops, I didn't see that Mawk already posted the link to AN 8.39

But now I think I remember what Bhante Dhammanando said. I think he said that 'disciple of noble ones' could be interpreted as the ordained Sangha, not necessarily lay people, but that it is somewhat vague. But in any event, lay or ordained, the precepts are pure for sotapanna and higher, which should be motivation enough to abstain most / all the time.
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Mawkish1983
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:10 pm

Does anyone know the original pali word that was translated here as 'disciple'?

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bodom
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby bodom » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:20 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:31 pm

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kirk5a
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby kirk5a » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:23 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:34 pm

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PeterB
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:38 pm

I have no doubt at all that I am non-virtuous and definitely not on the path to stream entry. So thats a relief all round. :smile:

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octathlon
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby octathlon » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:55 pm


PeterB
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:02 pm

I do take the precept. I dont consider myself to be in breach of it.
But likewise I would never encourage anyone to emulate me in anything at all.
I am entirely without wisdom.....seriously.

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octathlon
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby octathlon » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:05 am

All I can say is that if I had an alcoholic drink I would consider it as a violation of the 5th precept.

PeterB
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am

So dont...... :smile:

:anjali:

Dont do as I do, and dont do as I say. Do what seems right to you after mature reflection.

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Dhammakamo
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby Dhammakamo » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:30 am

Greetings,

the 5th precept is the triumph card of the all 5-precepts, As it is to prevent one from heedlessness. Breaking the 5th precept will result in a downfall and breaking of the other 4 precepts due to the lack of mindfulness.

The popular question is "can I just have a glass/bottle on special occasions or gatherings? I won't even feel tipsy at all, it works like a cigarette to me."

The simple answer from ajahns : I didn't say that you can't, but I didn't encourage you either.
"When an evil-man, seeing you practise goodness, comes and maticiously insults you, you should patiently endure it and not feel angry with him, for the evil-man is insulting himself by trying to insult you" - The Buddha

PeterB
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:35 am

Having a glass of wine occasionally has never been the cause my breaking any of the other precepts.

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby DarwidHalim » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:02 am

I do not know whether buddhist precept make you feel like you are in jail or not.

If we have a duality mindset, we will have a concept of right is always right. Wrong is always wrong.

But reality is not like that. One thing can be right, can be wrong, can be neutral, can be half right, can be half wrong, can be anything. You claim it, you get it.

Reality cannot be describe. That is why whatever you describe, it is not absolute. It is relative, relative to your opinion.

Regarding drinking beer, I do not know whether you ever read the life history of Milarepa, the great yogic of TIbet. His teacher, Marpa, drinks beer on many occasion. It doesn't matter.

If you read another Indian buddhist mahasiddha called Tilopa. He stayed at the bank of river and eat fish. He kills the fish and eat the meat. He even worked in the prostitute house.

A lot of their actions seems breaking all buddhist vows. If we take the buddhist vows literally, definitely it breaks it. But, what is the use of that vows? It is to guide us to see realize reality.

The action of killing is considered bad. This itself is not true. There is nothing can be absolute true or not. Reality is free from wrong or right. In previous Siddharta Gautama life, he has to killed 1 person in the ship, because that person wanted to kill all passengers in the boat. His motivation is by killing this guy, he will be saved from his sins killing so many people. Killing 1 person will already give you bad karma. So, killing around 499 persons, definitely it will be much heavier. But because of his compassion to save this guy from experiencing bad karma, this killer get a lot of good karma. The story is action is free from anything. It is the motivation that determine, whether it is good or bad.

There is a debate about the issue of drinking beer. Some people say if you drink beer, but you don't get drunk, it is ok. Some people say you cannot drink no matter what is the reason.

In my personal opinion, I do not agree with all these. In any situation, no matter how sinful it looks like, if we are skillful that situation can become our best method of enlightnment. Similarly, no matter how good the situation is, if we are unskillful, that situation can send us to the hell.

If you drink a beer and you are mindful and you are really mindful to understand the essenceless of the joy from drinking your beer (for example), in my opinion you are very skillful in developing your understanding of wisdom. In my opinion, it is wholesome.

Even though you drink until you want to get drunk or vomit and if you still can be mindful and from that vomitting and mindfulness you can experience directly the essenceless of all this activity, it is a good technique to learn buddhadharma.

We need to be realistic as well. How good is your understanding of buddha dharma. If we just a baby who learn buddhadharma, may be we should refrain it because we won't have power to control our mind yet. But, once you feel you can control your mind, sometimes this kind of "bad" action can become your best teacher.

Buddha dharma is everywhere. In the beer, in the hell, in the tree, in everywhere.

If you are skillful, you will enrich you understanding and reach your own buddhahood.

If you are unskill, even reading buddha dharma can send you to the hell.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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cooran
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Re: Fifth precept

Postby cooran » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:23 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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