Dhammapada Resources

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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mikenz66
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by mikenz66 »

Here's my "favourite" so-bad-it's-good mistranslation+misquotation from the Dhammapada.

This is commonly attributed:
Better your own truth,
however weak,
than the truth of another,
however noble.
Shakyamuni Buddha
This seems to be a rewording of:
The Dhammapada
Translated from the Pali by P. Lal
Verse 166, the last verse in the chapter on "The Self":
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... hIZaHx95JA
Better is your own Dhamma, however weak,
than the Dhamma of another, however noble.
Look after your self, and be firm in your goal.
Other translations make it clear that this verse has quite a different meaning from "make up your own truth":
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
166. Let one not neglect one's own welfare for the sake of another, however great. Clearly understanding one's own welfare, let one be intent upon the good.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Don't sacrifice your own welfare
for that of another,
no matter how great.
Realizing your own true welfare,
be intent on just that.
[url=http://home.nethere.net/dsparks/narada/index.htm[/url]
http://home.nethere.net/dsparks/narada/ ... 0Vagga.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
STRIVE FOR YOUR SPIRITUAL WELFARE

For the sake of others' welfare, however great, let not one neglect one's own welfare.* Clearly perceiving one's own welfare, let one be intent on one's own goal.

Story

As the Buddha was about to pass away His disciples flocked from far and near to pay their last respects to Him. A monk named Attadattha instead of joining them, retired to his cell and meditated. The other monks reported this matter to the Buddha. When questioned as to his conduct. the monk replied. "Lord, as you would be passing away three months hence I thought the best way to honour you would be by attaining Arahantship during your lifetime itself." The Buddha praised him for his exemplary conduct and remarked that one's spiritual welfare should not be abandoned for the sake of others.

* Here "welfare" denotes one's ultimate goal, i.e., Nibbàna. Personal sanctification should not be sacrificed for the sake of external homage.
One must not misunderstand this verse to mean that one should not selflessly work for the wealfare of others. Selfless service is highly commended by the Buddha.
By the way, the word, "dhamma" does not seem to appear in the Pali:
Attadattha.m paratthena
bahunaa' pi na haapaye
Attadattham abhi~n~naaya
sadatthapasuto siyaa. 166.
Metta
Mike
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sukhamanveti
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by sukhamanveti »

Manapa wrote: but the question everyone should ask themselves is, what is more important scriptural accuracy, or developing understanding.
Hi Manapa,

Since this part appears to be addressed to everyone, I hope you won't mind if I answer it. If an eclectic approach is helpful to you, then that is good. For me the situation is different. The only "religion" or philosophy that I have found helpful in my experience and the only thing that makes sense to me is Theravada Buddhism. I would like more of the same help and insight, therefore it is important to me to know what is Theravada and what is not. Thus in my situation accuracy and understanding go hand in hand. The teachings of a confused translator seem far less likely to be helpful to me than the teachings of the only system of thought and practice that has been able to begin to transform the way I see, think, feel, and live for the better, that has calmed my anxiety, that has made me hopeful, that has given me joy, that has helped me to love supposedly unlovable people. Nothing else comes even close in my experience. For me that is the answer.

Best regards.

Ed
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5
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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi sukhamanveti,
Since this part appears to be addressed to everyone, I hope you won't mind if I answer it.
not at all
If an eclectic approach is helpful to you, then that is good. For me the situation is different. The only "religion" or philosophy that I have found helpful in my experience and the only thing that makes sense to me is Theravada Buddhism.
I wouldn't call myself eclectic, but in what sense do you mean? many schools/texts one path, possibly? if so then no, I don't run around reading every text from many traditions, but that doesn't mean I discount other translations of the Suttas because someone thinks they are poor, only once I have seen for myself will I decide to put a translation aside.
I would like more of the same help and insight, therefore it is important to me to know what is Theravada and what is not. Thus in my situation accuracy and understanding go hand in hand. The teachings of a confused translator seem far less likely to be helpful to me than the teachings of the only system of thought and practice that has been able to begin to transform the way I see, think, feel, and live for the better, that has calmed my anxiety, that has made me hopeful, that has given me joy, that has helped me to love supposedly unlovable people. Nothing else comes even close in my experience. For me that is the answer.
are they understanding the meaning or translating because of convention? are they providing their understanding or providing a copy by rote? I know a German man who can speak English perfectly, when he translates writing, it is unintelligible, even thou he knows how to use the language. the mark of understanding is not dependent upon accuracy of words, but accuracy in understanding the meaning of those words, Dhamma is not dependant on ink, paper, and formula for translation.
see the truth for yourself! or accept what I say as truth! which was the Buddha teaching?

P.S. do understand I see for myself whether something is valid or not, I am concerned with the path of the noble ones.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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bodom
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by bodom »

Its hard to believe that no one has mentioned John Ross Carter's translation of the Dhammapada and its commentary which could be argued as the most informative of all the many Dhammapada translations.

The Dhammapada (Paperback)
by John Ross Carter (Translator), Mahinda Palihawadana (Translator)

Review

"Far surpasses any previous translation of the Dhammapada in terms of its scope and contextual accuracy. Carter and Palihawadana have not only provided a fresh English translation of the Pali but a transliteration of the Dhammapada (which makes it eminently useful for students of Pali) and, most impressively, a translation of the exhaustive and extremely commentarial Pali Dhammapadatthakatha....This, then, is a work of wide scholarly magnitude and great philological erudition."--Religious Studies Review

Product Description

The Dhammapada, the Pali version of one of the most popular texts of the Buddhist canon, also ranks among the classics of the world's religious literature. This critical edition presents to the English reader for the first time the Dhammapada as it has been known throughout the centuries. With this volume, Carter and Palihawadana make a major contribution to the understanding of the Dhammapada, not only by presenting a new and accurate translation of the verses, but also by enabling readers to see the wake of this remarkable text through centuries of Buddhist tradition. In addition to the original Pali, the editors provide a translation of the commentary on the verses and the subsequent brief explanations of verse and commentarial passages provided by Sinhala sources.


http://books.google.com/books?id=pvOk7_ ... =1#PPP1,M1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-John-R ... 0195108604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also enjoyed Gil Fronsdal's translation very much.

http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-Transl ... 0195108604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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kc2dpt
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Post by kc2dpt »

If one wants recommendations, then give them.
If one does not want recommendations, then don't give them.
Some people want recommendation, some don't.
I do not see what is so difficult here.

If you value recommendations I do not see the point in criticizing others who don't value them.
Likewise, if you do not value recommendations I do not see the point in criticizing others who do value them.
Some value recommendation and some don't.

For my own part...

If I had a leaky roof and a person who makes his profession as a roofer and has a good reputation made a recommendation regarding fixing the roof I would pay him heed.

If I had a bodily pain and a doctor with a good reputation made a recommendation regarding medicine I would pay him heed.

If I wished to study Buddhadhamma and a monk with a good reputation for conduct and knowledge of Pali made a recommendation for reading material I would pay him heed.

Buddhism, after all, is a teaching transmitted by teachers. It started with the Buddha and continues with the Sangha. It is not the case that the Buddha said "There is Nibbana. Go and find it for yourself. I will not guide you." I am thankful for that.

Also, my time and energy is a limited resource; I cannot read every book. As such I am grateful for wise friends who can help me make the most out of my time and energy. However, I can easily see another person with more time and energy would perhaps care to read more book for themselves.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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