chownah wrote:are all of these actions happening during jhana?
daverupa wrote:chownah wrote:are all of these actions happening during jhana?
It seems to me they must:
chownah wrote:Doesn't this seem at odds with what people usually consider about jhana?
chownah wrote:MN122 has 4th jhana followed by several different actions that could happen while a monk "is dwelling by means of this dwelling"........are all of these actions happening during jhana?....or is the jhana finished and this is all happening post jhana?
A portion of MN122: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"So, Ananda, if a monk should wish, 'May I enter & remain in internal emptiness,'
chownah wrote:Doesn't this seem at odds with what people usually consider about jhana? Here you have someone apparently in 4th jhana who is walking back and forth and talking (presumably) to people....
daverupa wrote:chownah wrote:Doesn't this seem at odds with what people usually consider about jhana?
Of course. I find the Suttas are often at odds with what people think.
chownah wrote:...in the sutta which I referenced its says the monk "enters and remains in" each of the four jhanas...."remains" seems to be suggesting that it is more than a momentary event....but I don't know.
"And what, monks, is right concentration? (i) There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. (ii) With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. (iii) With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' (iv) With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This, monks, is called right concentration."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
chownah wrote:Are you suggesting that jhana is like a key to a door and once the door is unlocked it is no longer relevant?
chownah wrote:It seems that quite often in the suttas there is a case of a monk going up the ladder of jhana usually to the 4th jhana and then contemplating something, something like the body internally, the body externally, the body both internally and externally for example. (This is for example only and I'm not wanting to discuss the body here unless it is necessary.) My question is whether the 4th jhana is only the first part which consists of the concentration of the mind?...or is the contemplation part which happens after the mind has achieved concentration part of the jhana too?
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