YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!! - Dhamma Wheel

Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:28 am

Hi,

Been casually trying to research something for a piece of art for a few years now, and it feels like i'm finally getting somewhere, although like Indiana Jones & the Holy Grail, I also feel like I might have to leave the grail where it is and it'll turn out I'm not gonna find an answer.... which is where you guys might be able to help me cos i've been totally blown away by the knowledge of text some people have on here!!

Ok!

Basically, i've been trying to find some sort of original text/script for the Noble Eightfold Path as the work of art I wish to produce is for me to look at and understand it's meaning, but still be individual and a little bit secret to me (and to anyone who can read said language!). So, and this is the bit I may need correction on... my knowledge of the origins and history of this so far is that the teachings of Gautami Buddha would have been passed down orally and that his language would have been Magahi/Magadhi (albeit they weren't written down). I also understand that the earliest written scrolls are very scant and unlikely to produce a handy piece of text for what i'm looking for. Pali appears to be more a vocal language and not a written medium as such, and Devanagari looks to me like a general written language for a large area of India, although i'm not too sure about that one.

So, my question, if it can be answered is,...

What does the scripture/text look like for the written version of the Eightfold Path??

I am coming up with either Devanagari or Magadhi as the basis for what it should be, but i'm amazed that the only versions of the Eightfold Path I can find are in Romanised English and I simply cannot find a variant in anything like it's mother tongue! I could get it translated from English via a website, but if anyone's ever used a translator to go from english to french and back to english, it never reads correctly.

Can anyone help me, i'm really on my last legs and all the sources i've tried (Pali text society, Naropa, various Buddhist institutions... :juggling: ) have only gotten me this far. Can anyone show me what the Eightfold Path looks like in it's most likely original text/scripture?? :broke:

Thank you, namaste.

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Noble Eightfold Path:

in Sinhala script: ආර්ය අශ්ටාංගික මාර්ග

in Thai script: อริยมรรคแปด

I personally prefer Brahmi script, since it is perhaps the oldest written form of Pali, used by King Ashoka in his edicts:

http://www.ancientscripts.com/brahmi.html
Image




User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby Kare » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:51 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:35 pm

Image




User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:42 pm

Thanks Kare.

To clarify, the second word, แปด bpàet, is the Thai word for eight, not the Pali word for eight (aṭṭha, I believe) expressed in Thai script.

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby cooran » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:05 pm

The Pali Language (article from University of Queensland)
http://uqconnect.net/slsoc/sutta/pali.htm
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby Kare » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:15 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:35 pm

Sorry, apologies, I think my request has been taken too literally. I'm after the CONTENTS of the Eightfold Path, not the words 'The eightfold path', but thank you for your efforts so far. :twothumbsup:

Nope, I'm after the eight actual aspects of the eightfold path in as close as possible to their original text/script (ie, Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness & Right Concentration).

Hope that clears it up and sorry again for the confusion, although it was slightly amusing. :oops:

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:43 pm

Hi blackspaven,

Whether you want "eightfold path" or "right view" etc, the problem is the same. There is no "original text/script" for Pali. The closest you could do would be to use one of the scripts from a related language, as David explained above.

:anjali:
Mike

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Yeah, that's what i'm gathering and I what I tried to allude to in my original post. That's kinda why i'm looking to see if anyone can help me with finding what they look like in either Devanagari or Magadhi as one seems to be a general language of India and the other is what is believed to be the language of the original Buddha so might be a safe bet that it's pure in it's origin on that basis. My understanding is that Pali is more of a spoken language, amongst other reasons showing it would never have been written down in that form.

Trouble is, everywhere I look that has various scripts on this subject mean nothing to me as I can't read them and I get confused as to what they're ACTUALLY saying/transcribing as. I don't really want to put something into the art piece and find out at a later date i've unwittingly written a cracking recipe for soup or something! :jumping:

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:02 pm

Here are some links to previous discussions of how to express Pali in different scripts:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8327#p132075
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8327#p130615
http://www.visiblemantra.org/scripts.html
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9412#p145219

:anjali:
Mike

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby SamKR » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:43 pm


User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1348
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby pilgrim » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:27 am

+1 :clap:

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:25 pm

Okay, so if i'm reading this correctly, the following is the pali/Davangari for the aspects of the eightfold path??

अरियो अट्ठङ्गिको मग्गो

सम्मादिट्ठि सम्मासङ्कप्पो सम्मावाचा सम्माकम्मन्तो सम्माआजीवो सम्मावायामो सम्मासति सम्मासमाधि

I'm presuming that the first line is the actual words 'Noble Eightfold Path' the second being the aspects themselves, and are the spacing's correct or does it not make a difference?? (anyone know how to make it any bigger to make it a bit clearer to transcribe??)
Last edited by blackspaven on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:28 pm

I'm quite excited now: this is closer than i've gotten in 2 years of random searching through other buddhist media. :woohoo:

blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:30 pm

Ah, just noticed a pattern... does up to this bit mean 'right/correct'?

सम्मा

Had a look on that link ( I have firefox so it shows up fine), and I can see where you would have gotten it from,... or rather I would have if I could read it! Is there any way you could show me where on that folders bit on the side it shows you where the aspects are shown so I can see them a bit larger, as it appears to show things bigger on the right hand side of the page, but obviously I can't find it... cos I can't read it. :smile:

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby SamKR » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:20 pm

Last edited by SamKR on Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby SamKR » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:27 pm


blackspaven
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby blackspaven » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:13 pm

Sam?? Thank you SOOOO much for all your help on here!!! :clap:

I now have exactly what i'm after, so I can go ahead with what I wanted to do. It's nice to get a little cheer up in the middle of the day, so thanks for all your input and effort again, it's massively appreciated and couldn't have done it without your help. Give yourself a pat on the back and a chocolate frog. :bow:

One last question, but I think I already know the answer to this one: with that particular type of script, I read about the line on the top running through it all, but does it have to join up if you're writing in a sentence, such as the list of the eightfold path? I'm guessing not, as the website link appears to be broken up into individual words/aspects, but just thought i'd double check.

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Pali/Devanagari/Magadhi deadend?!!

Postby SamKR » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:12 am



Return to “Pāli”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine