Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Sacha G
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Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby Sacha G » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:42 pm

Hi
It is often considered that satipatthana is the basis of vipassana (especially via the instructions of the satipatthana sutta).
However the Buddha put sammasati (i.e the 4 satipatthana) before sammasamâdhi. And, as far as I know, he doesn't make sati a special factor for the attainment of "seeing and knowing" but rather he insists that the meditator in samâdhi turns his mind to the truht of sufferig. Another point is that in the northern tradition (Sarvastivada), they don't make a big deal of sati (smriti). Finally Bhikkhu Sujato insists in "A history of Mindfulness", that Insight fostered Concentration in the Satipatthana sutta, due to late changes in the text.
What do you think? :juggling:
Sacha
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daverupa
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:57 pm

What was the question?

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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:00 pm

I'm not an expert, but my opinion is that while mindfulness for the sake of mindfulness has benefits, it isn't vipassana until the 3 marks of experience ( impermanence, no-self nature and dukha ) are noticed in the course of the experience.

Back in the 90s I belonged to a mediation group that was very big on mindfulness, very poor in emphasizing the latter point. Getting off on noticing the sweetness of raisins in my mouth or the "being there" for all of a red light were neat experiences, but the most useful experiences were ones after I learned to be on the lookout for the 3 marks....then more insights came.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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ground
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:03 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:13 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby danieLion » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:14 pm


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:50 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby dhamma follower » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:42 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:07 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby dhamma follower » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:26 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby PeterB » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:24 am


Sacha G
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby Sacha G » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:20 am

Well
I've been to Amarvati a couple of times, but unable to sign in for the retreats.
Maybe it'll do. For the moment, I'm not sure I want to go the burmese-style teachings.
Sacha G
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:13 pm


chownah
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby chownah » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:48 am

I'm not understanding all of the viewpoints given here but I found this at Nayanatiloka's Dictionary and thought it might be appropriate.

http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... .htm#magga
".................
Here it must also be emphasized that the links of the path not only do not arise one after the other, as already indicated, but also that they, at least in part, arise simultaneously as inseparably associated mental properties in one and the same state of consciousness. Thus, for instance, under all circumstances at least 4 links are inseparably bound up with any kammically advantageous consciousness, namely 2, 6, 7 and 8, i.e. right thought, right effort, right awareness or mindfulness and right concentration M. 117, so that as soon as any one of these links arises, the three others also do so. On the other hand, right view is not necessarily present in every advantageous state of consciousness.
.............."

I added the underlining. Note that where it says "namely 2, 6. 7, and 8" the "7" is samma-sati and the "8" is sama-samadhi.
chownah

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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:03 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby dhamma follower » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:21 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:25 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby dhamma follower » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:42 am


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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby ground » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:51 am

Last edited by ground on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

alan
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Re: Satipatthana: instructions for Vipassana?

Postby alan » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:53 am

It is not the function of sati to be aware. It's the function of awareness to be aware.


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