Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu! You hit the nail on the head.mikenz66 wrote:That's OK Sylvester, we can wait for you to recover...
But am I understanding that you are saying that the passage:
Is being or is, or both, the translation of atthi?There is the case where, there being sensual desire present within, a monk discerns that 'There is sensual desire present within me.'
So Ajahn Amaro's:is problematical because the use of "to be" in the Satipathhana Sutta isn't unconditioned?The second verb, “atthi,” refers to the transcendental qualities
of being-ness. Being-ness, in this case, does not imply a
becoming, the world of time or identity. It reflects the unconditioned,
the unmanifest nature of mind...
Mike
Ajahn Amaro's takes Nibanna Sutta in Ud 8.1 as follows -
It is clear that this udana declares "there is" Nibbana, the "unconditioned".‘‘Atthi, bhikkhave, tadāyatanaṃ, yattha neva pathavī, na āpo, na tejo, na vāyo, na ākāsānañcāyatanaṃ, na viññāṇañcāyatanaṃ, na ākiñcaññāyatanaṃ, na nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ, nāyaṃ loko, na paraloko, na ubho candimasūriyā. Tatrāpāhaṃ, bhikkhave, neva āgatiṃ vadāmi , na gatiṃ, na ṭhitiṃ, na cutiṃ, na upapattiṃ; appatiṭṭhaṃ, appavattaṃ, anārammaṇamevetaṃ. Esevanto dukkhassā’’ti.
There is that sphere of being where there is no earth,
no water, no fire, nor wind; no experience of infinity
of space, of infinity of consciousness, of no-thingness,
or even of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; here
there is neither this world nor another world, neither
moon nor sun; this sphere of being I call neither a coming
nor a going nor a staying still, neither a dying nor
a reappearance; it has no basis, no evolution, and no
support: it is the end of dukkha
But Ajahn Amaro is absolutely wrong to equate the use of "atthi" to only the Unconditioned. In fact, the most famous use of "atthi" in respect of the conditioned is to be found in that principle dealing with "conditioned-ness", ie iddapaccayata.
In this formula, "sati" is the locative case for "santo". "Santo" is the present participle for "atthi". You can also see this "santo" inflected as "santam" in the Satipatthana Sutta posted above (santam = there being).Imasmim sati, idam hoti ...
This being, that is ...
By his interpretation, every nidana and every factor of DO would have to concern itself with asankhata dhammas...
Pls don't get me started on Ven Thanissaro's translation and note to this Udana.