SN 35.205(246): Vina Sutta - The Lute

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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.205(246): Vina Sutta - The Lute

Post by mikenz66 »

"The men would reply: "This lute, sire, consists of numerous components, of a great many components, and it gives off a sound when it is played with its numerous components' that is, in dependence on the parchment sounding board, the belly, the arm, the head, the strings, the plectrum, and the appropriate effort of the musician."

BB: The Pali terms for parts of the lute (vina) are camma, doni danda, upavina, tanti, kona. The simile occurs at Milinda's Questions 5, inclusive of the list of terms (preceded by patta, sling).


"The King would split the lute into ten or a hundred pieces ... Then he would say: 'A poor thing, indeed sir, is this so-called lute, as well as anything else called a lute. How the multitude are utterly heedless about it, utterly taken in by it!"

BB: The meaning is obscure. Spk paraphrasess: "It is not only the lute that is a poor thing, but like this so-called lute, whatever else is bound with strings---all that is just a poor thing."


So, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu investigates form to the extent that there is a range for form, feeling... perception... volitional formations... conciousness... As he investigates ... whatever notions of 'I' or 'mine' or 'I am' had occurred to him before no longer occur to him."

Spk: The five aggregates are like the lute, the meditator is like the king. As the king did not find any sound in the lute even after splitting it up and searching, and therefore lost interest in the lute, so the meditator, exploring the five aggregates, does not see any graspable "I" or "mind" and therefore loses interest in the aggregates. By the term "I" or "mine" or "I am" in regard to form, etc, the three "grips" of views, craving, and conciet are respectively described. These do not exist in the Arahant.

BB: There is an important difference between the king that the meditator, not conveyed either by sutta or commentary: In the parable the king, looking for the sound of the lute by taking the instrument apart, seems foolish, while the meditator, dissecting the aggregates to dispel the delusion of a self, becomes wise.

Spk ends the commentary of the sutta with a quotation from the Great Commentary (no longer extant):
"In the beginning virtue is discussed,
In the middle, development of concentration,
And at the end, Nibbana:
The Simile of the Lute is thus composed."
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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.205(246): Vina Sutta - The Lute

Post by mikenz66 »

See also:

SN 5.10 Vajira Sutta: Sister Vajira
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What? Do you assume a 'living being,' Mara?
Do you take a position?
This is purely a pile of fabrications.
Here no living being
can be pinned down.

Just as when, with an assemblage of parts,
there's the word,
chariot,
even so when aggregates are present,
there's the convention of
living being.

For only stress is what comes to be;
stress, what remains & falls away.
Nothing but stress comes to be.
Nothing ceases but stress.
Nori
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Re: SN 35.205(246): Vina Sutta - The Lute

Post by Nori »

cooran wrote:Dear Nori,

On a 10 day Retreat, everyone rises at 4 or 5 a.m. and goes to bed at 9.30 p.m. or later. One meditates intensively for the entire day (and occasionally all night) except for meals, a scheduled dhamma talk, and a scheduled practice talk, and a brief interview with the teacher 3 times during this period. This 10 day period is in total silence with eyes lowered (no gazing at the scenery), and the other sense doors guarded at all times. The purpose of the Retreat is to Guard the Sense Doors while intensively practising meditation.

I’ve just returned from such a retreat, and always take two days off work after this to ensure a gentle return to the flood of sense impressions in the day to day world.

With metta
Chris
Hi Cooran,

I have been to several 10 day retreats, I know what they are like.

Whether you are, or are not guarding the senses, I cannot say, but there are different degrees of practicing it.

Many can believe they are practicing it, when they are actually not. The partaking of delight in the sensations of the world, body and mind (6 sense doors) can be very subtle. Like I said it is happening almost every moment. It can happen with just the sensation of air flowing over your body. Or even as you take a breath, or lie down to go to bed. It is anything that results in a pleasant (or unpleasant) feeling due to a cause that is related to a sense contact. It is that familiar feeling, "ahhh, that feels good". Taking delight, is actually, a voluntary action that one has some sort of control over.

If you can abstain from these sort of feelings for a long length of time and still be Ok, then I find that remarkable.

With Metta,
Nori
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