Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

[Soe Win Htut]

Nowadays, many meditators_yogi contemplate that mind, body, life or everything-etc; is impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
Our intellect can understand any mind and body are not mine, yours, myself, and yourself. We understand that mind, body, life or everything is subject to change, impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
But we still attach life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; with firm likes and dislikes.
Why is our attachment to life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; still being?
In our country especially in Myanmar, there are a lot of meditation centers and people have been practicing meditation methods taught by Buddha. After some time, they can let go of some worldly attachments but they become attaching firmly one's meditation method and meditation centre. Some are even becoming in more egotism about my way, my teacher, mine, yours etc,

In 2002, a monk has appeared in Myanmar to solve the problem in Myanmar. His name is U Ottamasara, Abbot of Than-lyin Natural Medtation Center, Yangon, Myanmar(Burma).
Now his teaching is becoming well known in Myanmar_Burma.

He teaches the Dhammaupassana, letting go of the idea of something, someone, somewhere, sometime as reality and as of real importance.(i.e. His teaching is just trying to abandon or discard the idea(mind-action) of centering, emphasizing, and attaching upon something, someone, somewhere, sometime and dualistic knowing such as hotness-coldness, pain-pleasure, good-bad, likes-dislikes, rising-falling, tightness-looseness etc; as reality and as of real importance).

If you want to learn more;
Here I would like to share his mp3 teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/music/item/3/Original_Truth_Created_Truths_Real_Meditation_Mp3_talk_05-11

Some more explanation about his teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/journal/item/18/_Utilization_the_truth_of_One_Citta_at_a_time_for_real_insight_and_easiness_in_daily_life

http://www.mediafire.com/?x078w45yh6maa6a

[Ben]

Thank you U Soe. I'll just move this thread into the Vipassana Bhavana forum where more people are likely to read and comment on it.
kind regards

Ben

[chownah]

I have two thoughts about this.
1. Letting go of ideas is fine but what if someone at an early stage of the path decided to let go of the idea that it is time to sit and meditate since this is part of my practice. If they let go of this idea then they might stop mediating.....how about letting go of the idea that consuming intoxicants is detrimental?....might people then forget this?....I guess that maybe there is a time for letting go of some things.....don't let go of the raft before crossing the water I guess....
2. Is letting go of "letting go of the idea of letting go of something" a good idea?
chownah
P.S. When I go to the second link in the original post the text is too wide to fit on my screen...it gives me a headache to keep panning back and forth to try to read it and make sense of it....doe anyone know how to fix this problem?
chownah

[PeterB]

Nowadays, many meditators_yogi contemplate that mind, body, life or everything-etc; is impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
Our intellect can understand any mind and body are not mine, yours, myself, and yourself. We understand that mind, body, life or everything is subject to change, impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
But we still attach life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; with firm likes and dislikes.
Why is our attachment to life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; still being?
In our country especially in Myanmar, there are a lot of meditation centers and people have been practicing meditation methods taught by Buddha. After some time, they can let go of some attachments but they become attaching firmly one's meditation method and meditation centre. Some are even becoming in more egotism about my way, my teacher, mine, yours etc,

In 2002, a monk has appeared in Myanmar to solve the problem in Myanmar. His name is U Ottamasara, Abbot of Than-lyin Natural Medtation Center, Yangon, Myanmar(Burma).
Now his teaching is becoming well known in Myanmar_Burma.

He teaches the Dhammaupassana, letting go of the idea of something, someone, somewhere, sometime as reality and as of real importance.(i.e. His teaching is just trying to abandon or discard the idea(mind-action) of centering, emphasizing, and attaching upon something, someone, somewhere, sometime and dualistic knowing such as hotness-coldness, pain-pleasure, good-bad, likes-dislikes, rising-falling, tightness-looseness etc; as reality and as of real importance).

If you want to learn more;
Here I would like to share his mp3 teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/music/item/3/Original_Truth_Created_Truths_Real_Meditation_Mp3_talk_05-11

Some more explanation about his teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/journal/item/18/_Utilization_the_truth_of_One_Citta_at_a_time_for_real_insight_and_easiness_in_daily_life

A very important point in my view. It has become a commonplace to see exhortations to " let go " with a clear implication that this letting go will result in a view untainted by anicca.

[Soe Win Htut]

I have two thoughts about this.
1. Letting go of ideas is fine but what if someone at an early stage of the path decided to let go of the idea that it is time to sit and meditate since this is part of my practice. If they let go of this idea then they might stop mediating.....how about letting go of the idea that consuming intoxicants is detrimental?....might people then forget this?....I guess that maybe there is a time for letting go of some things.....don't let go of the raft before crossing the water I guess....
2. Is letting go of "letting go of the idea of letting go of something" a good idea?
chownah
P.S. When I go to the second link in the original post the text is too wide to fit on my screen...it gives me a headache to keep panning back and forth to try to read it and make sense of it....doe anyone know how to fix this problem?
chownah

For 1 . Your question is very good and I think it arises from the desire to grasp the good things.

In fact, insight meditation is mostly concerned with the mind-action or attitude or idea or understanding.
It does not mean to abandon the good bodily action and verbal action.

It does not mean to abandon something good or bad directly.
But It means just to abandon the idea of something is in original reality and in real importance.
It means to abandon the idea/attitude/taking/centering/grasping/mind-action of something, someone, individual as original reality.

eg. If you have the business, the insight meditation does not mean to abandon it.
But it means to abandon the idea/attitude/mind-action of centering, grasping and thinking it as original reality and real importance.

That means to accept and contemplate that whatever our mind can now understand good or bad, pain or pleasure, like or dislikes, hot or cold, rich or poor, tightness or looseness etc, is unreal but just created truths (Samuti Sacca) which are just to be used only, to be experienced only and to be known only.
They are not for grasping, attaching, centering as original reality as they are impermanent, temporary, inconstant and non-self.

By accepting and contemplating like that, our action will be action only, our experiencing will be experiencing only and our seeing, hearing, feeling, and knowing will be seeing, hearing, feeling, and knowing only without attaching them.

for 2. I make pdf file and upload it there. you can download it and read it at http://www.mediafire.com/?s59cpunbig5kxsh

I would like you to download ebooks below and read them for more understanding.

1) http://www.mediafire.com/?ke9757vm2pe99z7 (Who is culprit of all problems? & Insight meditation notes)
2) http://www.mediafire.com/?v3agries457eonj (Escape from misunderstanding)
3) http://www.mediafire.com/?gn7z54lcinhgmon (Right View and Wrong View)

with metta,
SoeWin

[chownah]

Soe Win Htut ,
The title of this topic is "Letting go of the idea of letting go of something". I read the pdf file (thank you for providing that) but could not find any reference to "letting go" anywhere. I came back and re-read your original post and could find nothing that seemed to be talking about letting go of the idea of letting go of something....in fact it seems that you are commenting that the Dhammaupassana recommends letting go of things.

I'm confused....your post and the pdf you offered seem to have nothing to do with letting go of the idea of letting go of something which is the title of this topic.....does the title have nothing to do with what you want to discuss?........can you explain this?
chownah

[ground]

He teaches the Dhammaupassana, letting go of the idea of something, someone, somewhere, sometime as reality and as of real importance.(i.e. His teaching is just trying to abandon or discard the idea(mind-action) of centering, emphasizing, and attaching upon something, someone, somewhere, sometime and dualistic knowing such as hotness-coldness, pain-pleasure, good-bad, likes-dislikes, rising-falling, tightness-looseness etc; as reality and as of real importance).

If you want to learn more;

Why learn more about it? Why attach importance to teachings of this monk?


kind regards

[Soe Win Htut]

Soe Win Htut ,
The title of this topic is "Letting go of the idea of letting go of something". I read the pdf file (thank you for providing that) but could not find any reference to "letting go" anywhere. I came back and re-read your original post and could find nothing that seemed to be talking about letting go of the idea of letting go of something....in fact it seems that you are commenting that the Dhammaupassana recommends letting go of things.

I'm confused....your post and the pdf you offered seem to have nothing to do with letting go of the idea of letting go of something which is the title of this topic.....does the title have nothing to do with what you want to discuss?........can you explain this?
chownah

In the book, you will see the word "abandon" frequently. In my english language knowledge, "letting go" is a synonyms of "abandoning". Right?

At first, I put the title "Abandoning the idea of abandoning something as reality" and then I changed "Letting go of the idea of letting go of something". I think it is same.

In pdf book, It mentions how to abandon(letting go) the idea(the attitude) of something, someone, individual or dualistic nature as reality by remembering and contemplating the original truth or original reality of "one citta at a time" (or) illusive creation of the constant vanishing nature (Samudaya sacca of dukkha sacca).

If you can abandon(let go) the idea of something, someone, individual or dualistic nature as reality, you can abandon(let go) the any action such as rejecting or leaving or letting go or grasping or attaching or emphasizing or thinking of something, someone, individual or dualistic nature as reality.

What the book wants to explains;
let me give an example, if a negative thinking is happened, we need to let go it or we try to stop it directly.

In Dhammanupasana, we must try neither indulge nor reject it directly.
But we must try to abandon(let go) the attitude or idea or mind-habit of emphasizing and centering and taking it as reality and real importance by remembering and contemplating the original truth of "one citta at a time" (or) illusive creation of the constant vanishing nature (Samudaya sacca of dukkha sacca).

So also positive thinking, emotion, desire, feeling or any materiality etc.

with metta,

[Soe Win Htut]

He teaches the Dhammaupassana, letting go of the idea of something, someone, somewhere, sometime as reality and as of real importance.(i.e. His teaching is just trying to abandon or discard the idea(mind-action) of centering, emphasizing, and attaching upon something, someone, somewhere, sometime and dualistic knowing such as hotness-coldness, pain-pleasure, good-bad, likes-dislikes, rising-falling, tightness-looseness etc; as reality and as of real importance).

If you want to learn more;

Why learn more about it? Why attach importance to teachings of this monk?


kind regards

If we do not learn more about the letting go(abandoning) the idea of something or someone, we will be agitated or curious or questionable or craving or in problems with the idea of something or someone good or bad endlessly.

I attach the teachings of this monk because I has known the technique about the letting go(abandoning) the idea of something or someone as reality via his teaching.

[ground]

If we do not learn more about the letting go(abandoning) the idea of something or someone, we will be agitated or curious or questionable or craving or in problems with the idea of something or someone good or bad endlessly.

You just have to follow the Buddha's teaching. There is no need for other teachings by certain monks although more and more people seem to prefer some monk's teachings to the teachings of the Buddha.

I attach the teachings of this monk because I has known the technique about the letting go(abandoning) the idea of something or someone as reality via his teaching.

And now you may be getting attached to the idea that you have learned something as reality and as of real importance and thus the technique may be defeating itself. (Just playing the devil's advocate)


Kind regards

[chownah]

In the book, you will see the word "abandon" frequently. In my english language knowledge, "letting go" is a synonyms of "abandoning". Right?

At first, I put the title "Abandoning the idea of abandoning something as reality" and then I changed "Letting go of the idea of letting go of something". I think it is same.

In pdf book, It mentions how to abandon(letting go) the idea(the attitude) of something, someone, individual or dualistic nature as reality by remembering and contemplating the original truth or original reality of "one citta at a time" (or) illusive creation of the constant vanishing nature (Samudaya sacca of dukkha sacca).
..............."

Soe Win Htut,
Maybe when you were making the title you were thinking that it is important to abandon everything and as a way to emphasize this you say we should even abandon the idea of abandoning.....some people might think this is ironic so it would catch their attention and emphasize how you think that absolutely eveything should be abandoned......is this right?

Do you think we should abandon the truth of "one Citta at a time"?
chownah

[ground]

"There is the case, Ananda, where a monk, having practiced in this way — (thinking) 'It should not be, it should not occur to me; it will not be, it will not occur to me. What is, what has come to be, that I abandon' — obtains equanimity. He relishes that equanimity, welcomes it, remains fastened to it. As he relishes that equanimity, welcomes it, remains fastened to it, his consciousness is dependent on it, is sustained by it (clings to it). With clinging/sustenance, Ananda, a monk is not totally unbound."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Kind regards

[Soe Win Htut]

In the book, you will see the word "abandon" frequently. In my english language knowledge, "letting go" is a synonyms of "abandoning". Right?

At first, I put the title "Abandoning the idea of abandoning something as reality" and then I changed "Letting go of the idea of letting go of something". I think it is same.

In pdf book, It mentions how to abandon(letting go) the idea(the attitude) of something, someone, individual or dualistic nature as reality by remembering and contemplating the original truth or original reality of "one citta at a time" (or) illusive creation of the constant vanishing nature (Samudaya sacca of dukkha sacca).
..............."

Soe Win Htut,
Maybe when you were making the title you were thinking that it is important to abandon everything and as a way to emphasize this you say we should even abandon the idea of abandoning.....some people might think this is ironic so it would catch their attention and emphasize how you think that absolutely eveything should be abandoned......is this right?

Do you think we should abandon the truth of "one Citta at a time"?
chownah

Dear Chownah,

Your question is very good.
Some may think it means to abandon all good or bad.

What I mean the word "abandon" or " let go " is not to attach and cling all things including the truth but they are just to be used only, experieced only and known only.

My real meaning of the word "Letting go or abandoning" is not to attach and grasp anything such as something, someone, the truth, this way or that way but
to accept anything such as something, someone, the truth, this way or that way are just to used only, experienced only and known only.

The truth of "one Citta at a time" or whatever truth or way, are not to be attached or grasped but for utilization only, expericing only and knowing only for real enlightenment.

This is my more explanation with ebooks;

http://www.mediafire.com/trueanswer#7hb2ej9drp3g4,1

with metta,

[dhamma follower]

Nowadays, many meditators_yogi contemplate that mind, body, life or everything-etc; is impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
Our intellect can understand any mind and body are not mine, yours, myself, and yourself. We understand that mind, body, life or everything is subject to change, impermanent, unsatisfactory and non-self.
But we still attach life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; with firm likes and dislikes.
Why is our attachment to life, mind, body and the meditation method-etc; still being?
In our country especially in Myanmar, there are a lot of meditation centers and people have been practicing meditation methods taught by Buddha. After some time, they can let go of some worldly attachments but they become attaching firmly one's meditation method and meditation centre. Some are even becoming in more egotism about my way, my teacher, mine, yours etc,

In 2002, a monk has appeared in Myanmar to solve the problem in Myanmar. His name is U Ottamasara, Abbot of Than-lyin Natural Medtation Center, Yangon, Myanmar(Burma).
Now his teaching is becoming well known in Myanmar_Burma.

He teaches the Dhammaupassana, letting go of the idea of something, someone, somewhere, sometime as reality and as of real importance.(i.e. His teaching is just trying to abandon or discard the idea(mind-action) of centering, emphasizing, and attaching upon something, someone, somewhere, sometime and dualistic knowing such as hotness-coldness, pain-pleasure, good-bad, likes-dislikes, rising-falling, tightness-looseness etc; as reality and as of real importance).

If you want to learn more;
Here I would like to share his mp3 teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/music/item/3/Original_Truth_Created_Truths_Real_Meditation_Mp3_talk_05-11

Some more explanation about his teaching:
http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/journal/item/18/_Utilization_the_truth_of_One_Citta_at_a_time_for_real_insight_and_easiness_in_daily_life

Sadhu!

I've had the privilege to meet Sayadaw Ottamassara and listen to his teaching directly from Him. It was a very powerful experience, as I clearly witnessed a direct "transmission" of understanding.

His teaching is not easily discernible with words, but when it happens, it is of great value !

Thanks Soe Win Htut for sharing this!

regards,

[PeterB]

Two things leap out of this thread for me.
The first is the tendency to assume that if we have a profound experience with a particular teacher to further assume that he or she is the acme by which to judge all teachers.
The second is the tendency from some forum members who are extremely cagey about their own background in Vipassana and who will not be drawn on the subject, and who one suspects are self taught, to react to any discussion of the experiential by attempting to reduce it to verbal formulae that they are cosy with.
Discussion of Vipassana with someone self taught or taught from books is about as much use as discussion about dentistry with a self taught dentist.

[chownah]

Dear Chownah,

Your question is very good.
Some may think it means to abandon all good or bad.

What I mean the word "abandon" or " let go " is not to attach and cling all things including the truth but they are just to be used only, experieced only and known only.

My real meaning of the word "Letting go or abandoning" is not to attach and grasp anything such as something, someone, the truth, this way or that way but
to accept anything such as something, someone, the truth, this way or that way are just to used only, experienced only and known only.

The truth of "one Citta at a time" or whatever truth or way, are not to be attached or grasped but for utilization only, expericing only and knowing only for real enlightenment.

This is my more explanation with ebooks;

http://www.mediafire.com/trueanswer#7hb2ej9drp3g4,1

with metta,

Soe Win Htut,
I think I do understand what you are saying here.....I think you are saying that we should abandon all things and by this you mean that we should not attach to anything at all including all ideas and anything that arises in our consciousness at all....and that we should not take any of these things to be part of some reality or anything other than something that arises and then passes away....and that to see them in any way other than as arising and passing away of experience is to attach or cling to them and that clinging is the source of all suffering (duhhka). I am in compete agreement with this.

I hope that you can see that I am not needing to be convinced about the abandoning of all phenomena as being empty of self and not worth clinging to......I am just wondering about the title of this thread and why it was chosen. I can see that when understood a certain way it is compatible with what you are saying but I can also see how it can be misunderstood by beginners and perhaps might lead them astray. Also, since everything that arises should be abandoned I don't know why you have emphasized abandoning the idea of abandoning things by placing it in the title. I still do not know if you are trying to say that everything that arises should be abandoned but there is one special thing that should be abandoned and that special thing is the idea of abandoning things....it seems to me that certainly the idea of abandoning things is something to be abandoned but I don't know why you are giving it special treatment by placing it in the title of this thread. I have ideas about why it might deserve special attention but I'm wanting to know why you might think that it is especially important to abandon.
chownah

[ground]

What I mean the word "abandon" or " let go " is not to attach and cling all things including the truth but they are just to be used only, experieced only and known only.

This is what the Buddha teaches. In the Sabba Sutta he teaches that the All is "Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas."
In the Adittapariyaya Sutta he teaches to renounce this All and all its creations.

But when nama is emptied of feeling, perception, volition, contact and attention I feel that the more appropriate linguistic expression would actually be "cessation of usage and experience and knowing of things".


Kind regards

[Soe Win Htut]

Soe Win Htut,
I think I do understand what you are saying here.....I think you are saying that we should abandon all things and by this you mean that we should not attach to anything at all including all ideas and anything that arises in our consciousness at all....and that we should not take any of these things to be part of some reality or anything other than something that arises and then passes away....and that to see them in any way other than as arising and passing away of experience is to attach or cling to them and that clinging is the source of all suffering (duhhka). I am in compete agreement with this.

I hope that you can see that I am not needing to be convinced about the abandoning of all phenomena as being empty of self and not worth clinging to......I am just wondering about the title of this thread and why it was chosen. I can see that when understood a certain way it is compatible with what you are saying but I can also see how it can be misunderstood by beginners and perhaps might lead them astray. Also, since everything that arises should be abandoned I don't know why you have emphasized abandoning the idea of abandoning things by placing it in the title. I still do not know if you are trying to say that everything that arises should be abandoned but there is one special thing that should be abandoned and that special thing is the idea of abandoning things....it seems to me that certainly the idea of abandoning things is something to be abandoned but I don't know why you are giving it special treatment by placing it in the title of this thread. I have ideas about why it might deserve special attention but I'm wanting to know why you might think that it is especially important to abandon.
chownah

Dear Chownah,
Yes thanks for your reply.
I feel you can catch my meaning.
What I mean the word of "abandon" or "let go" is " NOT TO ATTACH AS REALITY BUT JUST TO BE USED ONLY, EXPERIENCED ONLY AND KNOWN ONLY".

I give the title because most of the Buddhists have already known and have the idea that everything that arises or worldly things should be abandoned.
But they attach and grasp that idea which can be called wisdom.
In fact every idea or worldly things are just to be used only, experienced only, and knowing only but they are not for grasping and attaching. as reality (original truth).

What I mean is not concerned with the abandonment(Not to attach and grasp) the things in physically and directly.
What I mean is the abandonment(Not to attach and grasp) the things in mentally.

eg. If you have a car. What I mean is not for to abandonment(letting go) the car physically or directly but just attachment upon it in mentally.
If a thought or an emotion arises, What I mean is not to abandon it directly but just abandon the attachment and taking as reality upon it.
If a idea of abandoning things arises, What I mean is not to abandon it directly but just to abandon the attachment upon it.

What I mean of letting go is not directly upon the object but just ATTACHMENT & GRASPING UPON IT AS REALITY.
ANY OBJECT OR ANY IDEA IS JUST TO BE USED ONLY, EXPERIENCED ONLY AND KNOWN ONLY.

My thread is intended for introducing Dhammanupansana.

Dhammanupassana is intended not to grasp and attach not only the meditation objects but also even the wisdom or vipassana insight.
Dhammanupassana intends to abandon the attachment upon the meditation objects but also the observing mind(wisdom).

The wisdom or vipassana insight is just a kind of mind in Sankhara loka (conditioned nature). If we attach or grasp any idea or wisdom which is in Sankhara loka (conditioned nature), we will never go beyond the Sankhara loka (conditioned nature),

Thanks a lot for your questions and curiosity.

with kind regards,

[Soe Win Htut]

What I mean the word "abandon" or " let go " is not to attach and cling all things including the truth but they are just to be used only, experieced only and known only.

This is what the Buddha teaches. In the Sabba Sutta he teaches that the All is "Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas."
In the Adittapariyaya Sutta he teaches to renounce this All and all its creations.

But when nama is emptied of feeling, perception, volition, contact and attention I feel that the more appropriate linguistic expression would actually be "cessation of usage and experience and knowing of things".


Kind regards

Thanks a lot for giving some references sutta ;

with metta,

[chownah]

My thread is intended for introducing Dhammanupansana.
Dhammanupassana is intended not to grasp and attach not only the meditation objects but also even the wisdom or vipassana insight.
Dhammanupassana intends to abandon the attachment upon the meditation objects but also the observing mind(wisdom).

The wisdom or vipassana insight is just a kind of mind in Sankhara loka (conditioned nature). If we attach or grasp any idea or wisdom which is in Sankhara loka (conditioned nature), we will never go beyond the Sankhara loka (conditioned nature),

Thanks a lot for your questions and curiosity.

with kind regards,

Soe Win Htut,
Thank you for having patience in replying to my questions. I see now what you were saying with the title and I agree with it whole heartedly. Indeed we should not attach to ideas like truth or wisdom but only observe them just as we do other things which arise in our experience...I think that by grasping at truth and wisdom is like grasping at an anchor which will hold us back from progressing....but if we observe them and let them go then they will help us progress toward more refined ideas and eventually we hope to selfless awakening.
chownah
P.S. Since you are introducing Dhammanupansana maybe this link will help people like me who are not so familiar with the term...it is a link to Nayanatiloka's Dictionary for the word "Satipatthāna":
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... #satipatthāna
It talks about Dhammānupassanā being the last of the 4 foundations of awareness or mindfulness. Here is an excerpt of that section under the "satipatthana" definition:

"..............
4: Concerning the mental-objects dhammānupassanā he knows whether one of the five hindrances nīvarana is present in him or not, knows how it arises, how it is overcome, and how in future it does no more arise. He knows the nature of each of the five groups khandha, how they arise, and how they are dissolved. He knows the 12 bases of all mental activity āyatana : the eye and the visual object, the ear and the audible object,.. mind and mental-object, he knows the mental chains samyojana based on them, knows how they arise, how they are overcome, and how in future they do no more arise. He knows whether one of the seven factors of enlightenment bojjhanga is present in him or not, knows how it arises, and how it comes to full development. Each of the Four Noble Truths sacca he understands according to reality.

................"

This is just a short excerpt and I suggest people who are not familiar with the term "dhammanupassana" read the entire "satipatthana" definition for some quick background.

chownah